The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Discussion about the Hemi in general.

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BlueDjinn
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:27 pm

The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby BlueDjinn » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:41 pm

I've been to several forums where the amazing, "clean-sheet" BOSS 500, Ford nitro engine is being
discussed at length, as is the equally amazing Ford Pro stock engine. Quite frankly, I'm fed up with
all of the smoke and mirrors bull$hit involving these engines. As far as I am concerned, if both of these
engines were literary works they'd be products of pure plagiarism. They are copies; and whether or not
they're good copies isn't the issue. Chrysler designed engines are being called Ford engines and the
following is my viewpoint on this:

If you are employed by or contracted from outside into the office of developmental engineering by an
established entity like "Chrysler Corporation", the signature architecture and consequent design inherent
of that engineering becomes the intellectual property of the corporation; with created nomenclature such
as "HEMI" becoming registered trademarks indentified with that corporation.
Therefore, anyone and everyone who has disassembled, refurbished, augmented, modified, "copied",
photographed, or even voiced the term "HEMI" is regarding a Chrysler engine.
There are several hemispherical combustion chamber type engines from different manufacturers.
They have their own individual designations. Only the Chrysler is correctly called the HEMI.

The NHRA Top Fuel engine is not just a hemi. It is The HEMI. It is a derivative of the Chrysler design.
The HEMI's present geometry's are an interpolation of Chrysler's base engineering from the stock engine.
That the new materials of construction and architectural advancements seriously exceed the original
cast iron and steel forgings will come as no surprise to anyone that understands the requirements
of that metallurgy and the expectations of that architecture; as that has always been Chrysler's intention.

Tom Hoover, the godfather of the HEMI has already called it "honing and evolving". Who better to know?
Who better to say? Even in its stock form the 426 Chrysler HEMI is a full-throttle racing engine. It is no
longer rated at 425 horsepower. It is mathematically calculated at 9 thousand horsepower; much to the
serious chagrin of everyone else that think they know how to build an engine.
That the nitro block and its components don't originate in the Chrysler foundry does not change the inherent
design. It is unmistakeably Chrysler. MOPAR fuel motor block P/N P3690433.

All of the aforementioned is why a Keith Black HEMI has always been a Chrysler engine; as are "all" of
the present hyper-alloy billet versions of the NHRA Top Fuel HEMI. They are Chrysler type engines.
The people reproducing the NHRA Top Fuel engines didn't just pull them out of the ether. I would dare say
that most of them have never had an original idea in their lives; and in their lifetimes they have "created"
nothing. They needed a blueprint. They needed to make reference to and develop upon an existing, engineered
structure. That structure is Chrysler's HEMI.

It is for all of these reasons and for others as well that the "Fraud/Farce" BOSS 500 "is not" a Ford; neither
is it a clean-sheet engine.
It is indubitably recognizable as a Chrysler HEMI regardless of being "anodized" with ignorance and corrupted
by Ford specs.

moparornocar
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 9:16 pm
Location: Pineywoods of East Texas

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby moparornocar » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:05 pm

'51 Hemi & 55 SBC, a class of their own

moparornocar
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 9:16 pm
Location: Pineywoods of East Texas

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby moparornocar » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:56 pm

Scroll down just past year of 1961, Mickey Thompson was ahead of John Farce in pirating Chrysler HEMI(R) heads, but he (MT) more or less admitted it.
http://www.pontiacheaven.org/pontiac%20history.htm
'51 Hemi & 55 SBC, a class of their own

mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby mart » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:52 pm

moparornocar wrote:Scroll down just past year of 1961, Mickey Thompson was ahead of John Farce in pirating Chrysler HEMI(R) heads, but he (MT) more or less admitted it.
http://www.pontiacheaven.org/pontiac%20history.htm

--------------------------------------
The M/T Pontiac hemi heads are very, very cool! They
weren't exact copies of the Chrysler design, but they were
very close and definitely and unabashedly based on the
original51'-58' Chrysler heads. One of my "If I ever win
the lottery and money was no object
" 'dream projects'
would be to adapt a single M/T hemi Pontiac head to a
195 cubic inch, "slant-four' from a '61-'63 Pontiac Tempest
- and then stuff it into a 'track-style' T-bucket! What a
thumping little screamer that'd be!!! By the way, besides
the extremely rare Pontiac 'hemi conversion heads', M/T
also did an even smaller run of similar 'hemi conversion
heads' for 427 Fords too. Somewhere on the net, there's
some pictures and an article on a 'one-off' "Hemi-427
Ford
" Thunderbolt that M/T built to show off and
promote his Ford Hemi heads.

mart
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mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

3 Pics - M/T Pontiac Hemi Conversion Heads

Postby mart » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:53 pm

3 Pics - M/T Pontiac Hemi Conversion Heads
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mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

1 Pic - M/T 427 Ford Hemi Conversion Head

Postby mart » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:56 pm

1 Pic - M/T 427 Ford Hemi Conversion Head
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mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

1 Pic - M/T Hemi Pontiac head on a blown Tempest 'Slant-

Postby mart » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:01 pm

1 Pic - M/T Hemi Pontiac conversion head on
a 3-71 blown 195 cubic inch Tempest 'Slant-4'
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speedicusmaximus
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby speedicusmaximus » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:55 am

Mart,

In the August '10 issue of Hot Rod Magazine, there's a feature on the Pontiac Hemi. At least I think it is, I haven't got the magazine yet, and the trail in the July issue was a bit obscure - not mentioning the actual name of the converted engine, or of the heads manufacturer. But there was a picture !

Mike
Beep ! Beep !

moparornocar
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 9:16 pm
Location: Pineywoods of East Texas

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby moparornocar » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:45 pm

--------------------------------------
mart>>>>>" One of my "If I ever win the lottery and money was no object" 'dream projects'
would be to adapt a single M/T hemi Pontiac head to a 195 cubic inch, "slant-four' from a '61-'63 Pontiac Tempest - and then stuff it into a 'track-style' T-bucket! What a
thumping little screamer that'd be!!!"

Hey mart, below link is what you could have and with the original name on it.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html
'51 Hemi & 55 SBC, a class of their own

mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Mickey Thompsonj Ford Hemi - History

Postby mart » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:56 pm

Mickey Thompsonj Ford Hemi - History
mart
--------------------------------------------------
From the August, 2010 issue of Hot Rod

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html

Mickey Thompson's 427 Ford/Hemi
Engine - Mickey's Mystery Motor


Yes, It's A Hemi. No, It's Not
A Chrysler. It's A Ford. This
Rare Piece Was Created By
Mickey Thompson 46 Years
Ago.


By Bill McGuire
Photography by Bill McGuire, Wes AlIison


Not long ago in HOT ROD, we told you
the story of Mickey Thompson, the greatest hot
rodder ever ("Life at 400 MPH," Dec. '08). But
really, there might be hundreds of stories about
M/T that need to be told. Here's one of them.
Back in 1964, Mickey created this wonder: a 427
Ford FE engine with aluminum hemi heads of
his own design.

A shrewd money racer, Mickey deftly maneuvered
himself as the Detroit automakers drifted in and
out of motorsports. When GM chairman Fred Donner
pulled the plug on all racing activities in 1963,
Mickey wasn't without a factory backer for long,
quickly landing a Ford deal for 1964. His multicar
IndyCar team, previously powered by Buick and
Chevy aluminum small-blocks, including a DOHC
Chevy in mid-development by M/T, was switched
over to Ford Indy four-cammers. Ford's racing
bosses also dealt M/T not one but two of their
new Fairlane Thunderbolts to replace his Pontiac
A/FXers. (Known as dollar cars, the 'Bolts were
sold to Mickey for a buck each.) Meanwhile,
another exotic M/T project, a hemi head
package Mickey had developed for the Pontiac
V-8, was transferred to Ford's big-block FE
engine.

Like many of the best stories in hot rodding,
M/T's hemi heads are shrouded in mystery, as
well as a fair amount of baloney. Here we
hope to dispense with as much of the latter
as possible. First, old bench racing stories to
the contrary, Mickey didn't simply butcher
up early Chrysler hemi heads until they fit on
Pontiac and then Ford short-blocks. Nor are
the M/T Pontiac and Ford cylinder heads the
same or even very similar pieces. It wasn't
nearly that easy, and nobody enjoyed a
technical challenge more than Mickey.

Interestingly enough, the bore spacing of the
Chrysler, Pontiac, and Ford FE V-8s are quite
similar, at 4.562, 4.62, and 4.63 inches,
respectively. Another coincidence: All three
engines employ a head bolt arrangement with
10 fasteners per bank. The patterns are similar,
yet not identical and do not line up, nor do
the water passages and other features. So M/T's
hemi castings aren't Mopar knockoffs-at most,
they could be described as conceptually based
on the Chrysler but adapted to different
architectures. Rather cleverly, too. The M/T
castings do share a few parts with the Chrysler,
including the intake rocker arms and valve
covers. M/T also marketed aluminum replacement
heads for the Chrysler, by the way. They listed at
$725 per pair in the '64 M/T catalog, while the
Pontiac and Ford heads were $900.

While it resembles the Mopar to some degree, there
are significant differences. For starters, it's aluminum
rather than iron. The castings were reportedly poured
by Buddy Bar Castings, the South Gate, California,
foundry where a significant portion of the West Coast's
go-fast parts were (and still are) cast.

We can't say how many M/T Ford hemi heads were
manufactured or sold. We can guess maybe a dozen
or two at the very most, judging from the number
that appeared to be in circulation throughout the
mid-'60s. Mickey ran at least one pair on his
supercharged gas dragster, while another set was
installed on one of his Thunderbolts, the one driven
by Jess Tyree. (Butch Leal drove M/T's other,
S/S-legal 'Bolt with a conventional wedge-head
427.) Los Angeles racer Walt Stevens ran an M/T
hemi Ford, supercharged and on nitromethane,
first in a Fuel Altered, then in the A&W Root
Beer AA/FD. Maybe another one or two Ford
hemis floated around the Midwest for a time.
Ron Pellegrini of Chicago ran a Ford hemi in his
wild '65 Mustang Funny Car, but that engine was
an early Chrysler with Ford badges on the valve
covers. From there the trail goes dark.

The engine shown here, a Hilborn-injected version,
is the proud possession of Clyde Dedrick, a Southern
California building contractor who truly loves-with
all his heart-the golden age of front-motored Top
Fuelers and drag boats. Clyde owns an extensive
collection of vintage drag boats and Chrysler 392
stuff and is also responsible for the Chabasco AA/FD,
a well-known cacklefester. Clyde's M/T hemi was
originally installed in a Litchfield hull to be
campaigned by Mary Rife, drag boat racing's Shirley
Muldowney and the fastest woman on water. The
engine was donated to a church at some point,
then went through several owners before Clyde
learned of and rescued the rare hardware.

Clyde generously threw open the doors of his
Oceanside, California, shop and let us fiddle
with and photograph the disassembled M/T
Ford hemi, meanwhile regaling us with an
endless string of fabulous SoCal hot rodding
stories. (Yes, at HOT ROD we live the dream.)
Clyde then reassembled the engine so
photographer Wes Allison could capture the
glamour shot that leads this story. We knew
we were being treated to something special
in seeing in person, and handling with our
own grubby mitts, one of the few remaining
examples of this very rare engine-but we
had no idea how special until we laid eyes on
the M/T Ford's most amazing feature: its
articulated, three-piece pushrods. Since the
setup defies ordinary written description,
please refer to the accompanying photos and
captions. Curiously, this part of the design
doesn't appear to be described or illustrated
in any literature of the period, including The
Mickey Thompson Performance Handbook
and Catalog, a publication jointly produced
in 1964 by M/T and Petersen Publishing, HOT
ROD's former parent company.

The story of the Ford M/T hemi is as short as
it is fascinating. Right around the time Mickey
was joining up with Ford for 1964, the company
was already planning its own hemi-fied version
of the FE engine, the 427 SOHC Cammer.
FoMoCo, with technical resources infinitely
greater than the Southern California hot rod
industry could generate, had come up with its
own solution to pushrod obstruction: eliminate
them altogether. On the cammer, the valves
are actuated by a single overhead camshaft on
each bank. Mickey dropped his hemi and quickly
adopted the Cammer, using it to great effect in
his LSR streamliner and Funny Cars. There is no
indication that Mickey ever looked back. But
today we can, to a most unusual engine by the
most energetic and creative hot rodder there
ever was.
----------------------
Photos:

1) " Mickey Thompson's 427 Ford/Hemi Engine -
Mickey's Mystery Motor Back in the '60s, the pages
of HOT ROD frequently featured cheesecake engine
photos like this one. High school boys stared at
these instead of girlie magazines-it's true. Ace
photographer Wes Allison nailed the look for this
story. Unfortunately, one of the injector stacks is
currently missing, but that's an easy enough fix for
such a rare and valuable engine.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269497+w750 ... r_shot.jpg

2) "Except for the massive head studs, which
also carry the double rocker arm pedestals, the
M/T hemi's short-block is a nearly stock 427 side
oiler with cross-bolted mains-stouter than a 392
Chrysler, we'd guess.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269500+w750 ... embled.jpg


3) "Here's the M/T Ford hemi head shown without its
rocker assemblies. While it resembles the Mopar to
some degree, there are significant differences. For
starters, it's aluminum rather than iron. The castings
were reportedly poured by Buddy Bar Castings, the
South Gate, California, foundry where a significant
portion of the West Coast's go-fast parts were (and
still are) cast
."
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269503+w750 ... r_head.jpg

4) "We nearly fell over when we discovered the
M/T hemi's most unusual feature: its three-piece,
articulated pushrods designed to snake around the
enormous ports. The lower third of the pushrod is
captured in a brazed retainer in the top of the
roller lifter, while the top third contains the lash
adjuster."

http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269410+w750 ... design.jpg

5)"To stabilize the three-piece pushrod assembly,
the centersection runs in a fitted bore reamed in
the cylinder head casting and lubricated by a small
orifice-visible here between the head stud and the
intake valve and spring.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269506/hrdp ... ection.jpg

6) "Here are the M/T Ford and the comparable
Chrysler 392 castings side by side. While their
bore centers are similar, Mickey's Ford head is
noticeably larger in every direction-check out
the humongous intake ports. The M/T Pontiac
head is a different piece as well.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269413+w750 ... _heads.jpg

7) "Look: a hemispherical combustion chamber.
Unlike the Mopar, and somewhat curiously, the
M/T hemi runs identical intake and exhaust
valve diameters-approximately 2.00 inches.
Note the copper sealing O-rings and fully
machined chamber
."

8 - "A Jackson-style three-gear cam-drive setup is
employed. A bevel gear bolted to the nose of the
cam drives the magneto.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269416+w750 ... _setup.jpg
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269509+w750 ... hamber.jpg

9) "With the distributor drive relocated to the timing
cover, a stub housing and distributor shaft allow the
cam to drive the original Ford oil pump shaft.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269512+w750 ... _shaft.jpg

10) "The cast M/T timing cover eliminates the
water pump and also accommodates the
magneto and Hilborn fuel-injection pump,
both driven at half speed from the front of
the camshaft
."
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269419+w750 ... _cover.jpg

11) "Massive rocker arm pedestals slip on over the
head studs. The exhaust rockers are aluminum M/T
pieces, but the intake rockers are stock 392, straight
out of the Chrysler parts book.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269515/hrdp ... ockers.jpg

12) "At the '64 NHRA Winternationals in Pomona,
California, Mickey unveiled this Fairlane
Thunderbolt with a pair of his hemi heads. He
also cooked up at least one of his familiar
cross-ram, dual-quad manifolds for the hemi
combination.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269422/hrdp ... ionals.jpg

13) "At the '64 Winternats, Mickey also ran a
AA/GD with a GMC-blown version of his Ford
hemi. Shown here with his class winner trophy,
he was defeated in the Top Gas Eliminator
final by Danny Ongais, running an 8.53 to the
quiet Hawaiian's 8.39. In the class finals, M/T
had defeated Ongais. Mickey later hired
On-the-gas to drive his '69 Mustang Funny Car.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269521/hrdp ... ionals.jpg

14) "Hilborn injectors are joined to the hemi heads
with a pair of beautifully machined adapter plates.
The tall velocity stacks are presumably tuned for a
fat torque curve.
"
http://image.hotrod.com/f/28269428/hrdp ... ectors.jpg


====================================

mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

....and speaking of other exotic 'non-Chrysler' Hemis....

Postby mart » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:05 am

.....and speaking of other exotic, 'non-Chrysler' Hemis....check
out these cutaway drawings and photos of the experimental
hemi V8 used in the Buick 'XP300' and 'Le Sabre' Motorama
show cars for 1951. Not only was it a hemi, all aluminum and
supercharged, but it used a unique twin-2-bbl carb "dual fuel
system" that used two 2-bbl Bendix 'aircraft-trpe' "pressure
carbs" - which were themselves, basicaly a form of low-pressure
mechanical fuel injection! One Bendix "pressure carb" fed regular
gasoline to the engine for start-up, idle and low and medium
speed cruising - and then, when the engine was under load or
running at higher speeds, where the blower would be putting
out some serious boost and a cool burning, very high-octane
fuel would be required, the second 'pressure carb' cut in, feeding
straight methanol to the engine! To my mind, most of this stuff
wouldn't be backward or obsolete technology even today, but
back in 1951 this surely must have been 'wild and woolly' stuff
and way beyond even 'cutting edge'!

Note the very generous 'valve to bore' size allowed by the
hemi design, the nearly straight and unencumbered ports
and the valve gear and pudhrod angles too - especially the
on the exhaust side, where the lifters and pushrods are
angled at or - very close to - 90 degrees to the cam and
run nearly parallel to the ground! The engine was only
experimental though, and other than buiding a handful of
engineering 'test mules' - and putting one of them into
the 1951 Buick 'XP300' show car and another into the
1951 "Le Sabre' Motorama show car, both of which still
survive with their unique engines intact by the way(!),
for whatever reasons, Buick never put thus engine into
production. Too bad! :(
-------------------------
General Specs:
215 cubic inches,
Aluminum block and heads, o.h.v. V8 with
hemispherical combustion chambers,
335 hp with 381 lbs. of torque,
10 to 1 compression ratio,
roots type supercharger and dual 2-bbl
Bendix aircraft-type 'pressure carbs'
- one feeding regular gasoline and the
other, straight methanol,
rear-mounted automatic trans
w/overdrive

=======================================
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392heminut
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:16 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby 392heminut » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:04 am

Great stuff Mart! Thanks for taking the time to post all of it!
Owner of the Poor Man's Hemi Cuda

BlueDjinn
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby BlueDjinn » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:25 pm

Yes, It's A Hemi. No, It's Not A Chrysler. It's A Ford.

Uh...Sure! This isn't the first time I've read an article by Bill McGuire and I've noticed the Ford slant.

I took the time to read, and I mean really read, the article in August 2010 Hot Rod magazine.

Some things in there that just jump out and practically bite me, for example; ..."Mickey created this wonder:
a 427 Ford FE engine with aluminum (hemi heads of his own DESIGN)".

"M/T's hemi castings aren't Mopar knockoffs - at most, they could be described as (conceptually based)
on the Chrysler but adapted to different architectures".

"Mickey Thompson also marketed aluminum replacement heads for the Chrysler".

How convenient then; or is that coincidental, that M/T castings do share a few parts with the Chrysler,
including the intake rocker arms and valve covers.

Bill McGuire needs to know that the original 392 Chrysler head, is the "conceptually based" head.
Chrysler engineers took a concept, an idea, a theory, and implemented it to "create" a cylinder head
of their design.
Mickey Thompson "designed" nothing. Using the existing technology of the Chrysler 392 he MODIFIED
it, to first fit the Pontiac 389 and 421 V8's and then the Ford 427.
Mickey Thompson's hemi head is therefore a "functionally based" piece, based on Chrysler engineering.

If Mickey Thompson's hemi head was conceptually based it would not appear in the comparison photo
along with the Chrysler head. It would stand alone in the photo as an original piece. It doesn't, because it's
functionally based. M/T's head is an interpolation of the 392. Of course the 392 won't bolt directly onto
the Pontiac or the Ford blocks and I don't expect that they would. Thompson's application was to take
a cylinder head from a stock engine and adapt it to high performance. He also intended to transplant
Chrysler technology onto a specific Pontiac and then onto a specific Ford, cylinder blocks.

Not forgetting that Mickey Thompson also marketed replacement aluminum heads for the Chrysler,
it was just a matter of course to relocate some bolt holes, some water passages, stretch some lines
and "voila", Pontiac 421 and Ford 427 hemi engines.

I don't care how weasel-worded an article is. I sift through all the flowery rubbish and see for what it is.

Mickey Thompson's hemi heads are copies of engineered Chrysler architecture, MODIFIED to fit non
Chrysler blocks in a performance application. That he did a decent job of it is beside the point.
The point is; Ford's first 427 hemi was a hybrid that wore Chrysler DESIGNED heads "before" Ford
developed their own and put them on the same block; calling it the 427 SOHC.

As far as I'm concerned Ford still march to beat of the same drummer. They waited until the Chrysler
nitro HEMI is a perfected piece; they put Ford bearings in it, anodize it blue, claim it for themselves
and call it the BOSS . What a load of Ford drivel!

You know, even the 427 SOHC that Ford like to brag about so much isn't a conceptually based engine.
Nope, they didn't come up with that on their own either. Just another case of monkey see, monkey do.

Back in August 1957 on the cover of Motor Trend magazine there's a cover shot of a 500 horsepower,
4 cam, multiple carburated, Chrysler Hemi. A cammer engine from Chrysler, seven years before Ford
brought out their SOHC.
So just who the hell is copying who. (the question is rhetorical by the way)

http://usedmagazines.com/titles/MotorTrend/1957/ eighth magazine cover down from top of the page.

http://www.under1981.com/VINTAGEMOTORTRENDMAGS1.html eight cover from the top.

http://graphic-server.com/cgi-bin/usedm ... 195708.JPG

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby oldngood » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:53 am

I used to think the same think until someone enlightened me.

The hemi cylinder head design was around long before Chrysler built their engines, Zora Arkus Duntov made a hemi conversion for the flathead Ford V8- and during the 1960's Pontiac asked Chrysler for help developing a Pontiac OHC Hemi engine, and you'd be surprised to learn, that Chrysler agreed and even sent over a team of engineers to Pontiac, to discuss the project and help PMD.

So if Chrysler themselves is willing to help other companies develop a Hemi type engine, obviously they didn't invent the cylinder head design- they just produced most of them back in the day.

Today practically everything is a hemi or hemi hybrid/pentroof chamber.

The Buick nailhead was merely a modified Hemi type chamber- pentroof.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby oldngood » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:00 am

BlueDjinn wrote:Yes, It's A Hemi.

How convenient then; or is that coincidental, that M/T castings do share a few parts with the Chrysler,
including the intake rocker arms and valve covers.

G



agreed, both the M/T Pontiac and M/T Ford FE heads, were based on the early 392 Chrysler, proof being they even used Chrysler Firepower rockers and rocker shafts. The Pontiac M/T hemi heads ate pushrods like candy, because the Pontiac block was never designed to run that severe a pushrod angle, the lifter bores were pointing too high in the block. I'd wager the Ford FE M/T hemi heads had the same problem, and it took Ford engineers to straighen it out with the SOHC 427 and BOSS 429- that would mean either redesigning the block for lower pushrod angle, or designing a new rocker shaft system with much longer rocker arms, so the existing wedge head blocks could be used- Ford did a little of both, but mostly the latter, Ford rockers are long and heavy.

BlueDjinn
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby BlueDjinn » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:49 pm

oldngood. Chrysler has never even pretended to have invented the hemispherical head.
Hemisphere means half of a sphere or half of a circle. How the hell do you invent half a circle?
Chrysler did however, implement their own particular development of that geometry, given their
research of the combustion event in that environment.

When you are talking about the Chrysler HEMI you are discussing the "entire engine" as a complete running unit.
The architecture of the block and how the shortblock assembly complements the cylinder heads.
The entire engine; not just the combustion chamber; not just the heads. The "entire engine" is the HEMI.

As early as 1939 Chrysler engineers began development on designing a hemispherical combustion chambered
engine. With final approval of the blueprints, construction of the two-thousand, five-hundred horsepower
Chrysler military aircraft engine began. The hemi engine flew in 1945; two years before Duntov slapped a couple
of heads on Ford's crappy flathead in 1947. You see Chrysler were actually using their technology to
win the war; they also engineered a battle tank engine; and where was Ford for all this; that pro-Nazi
imbecile was praising Hitler's Mein Kampf!

Chrysler didn't put all of their eggs in one basket either. When the long hoodlines of their cars were no
longer in vogue, Chrysler decided that their straight eight would be replaced by a more compact V8.
The research and development that went into their V16 was not wasted and Chrysler's new V8 engine
was running in 1948. From inception through to completion is roughly a five year period for engine development.
This was no exception as the Chrysler 330 hemi was an engineer's blueprint in 1943; "four years before Duntov
slapped a couple of heads on Ford's crappy flathead in 1947". The engine increased in size by one cubic inch
after being perfected in the lab and was released to the public in 1951 as the 331 Hemi. This was a clean sheet
of paper, from the ground up engine. A complete hemi engine; cylinder heads, block and all.
Not just just a couple of cylinder heads slapped on Ford's crappy flathead.

BlueDjinn
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby BlueDjinn » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:52 pm


moparornocar
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 9:16 pm
Location: Pineywoods of East Texas

Re: The HEMI is BOSS and the BOSS is Chrysler

Postby moparornocar » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:13 pm

So where are all these copy-cat hemi engines today? And how many NHRA races have they won? How many NHRA races did the ford scammer engine win. How many years since a true ford engine won a NHRA TF, FC. TAD or TAFC race? BlueDjinn, as I have said before, when you try to discuss such as engine technology with diehard ford fans; you might as well be talking to a mule. I'm still looking for just one item that ford was the first to develop and install in the auto or engine that improved the performance, safety or ease of operation of the auto or engine.
'51 Hemi & 55 SBC, a class of their own


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