2500-hp XI-2220 V16 Hemi

Post by **scottm** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:40 am

I believe that Chrysler developed the XI-2220 engine
for World War II, but it was not released in time to be
used in production. An 2219-ci 2500-hp inverted V16.
(Supposedly the engine was about 10.5 feet in length.)

Can anyone share some more information on this??

dodgedifferent2 · Post by **dodgedifferent2** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:14 pm

yes i have read something about this in a magazine once before i think it was in Mopar Action/ or mopar Muscle magazine but it never stated that kind of information but i knew chrysler was playing with tank/airplane engines during the war and another thing i pertained to my head of knowledge was that the Enola Gay (dropped atomic bomb on japan) was powered by a chrysler developed engine.
as for the V-16 i didnt know the size but i thought it was V12

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:33 am

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:50 am

And yes that is the length, Over 10'..... So how many 5' long v8s do you see

???

martx-5 · Post by **martx-5** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:46 am

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/catal ... le2002.htm...XI-2220 V-16

ewoky409 · Post by **ewoky409** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:50 pm

The v-16 hemi (they only made 5,I think),was meant to be an aircraft engine,but the war ended before it went into production.They installed it in a P-47 Thunderbolt,and made 2 speed runs with it at 15,000 ft..On the 1st run,it was radar clocked at 504 mph,and the next day,on the second run it was clocked at 505 mph.
I've seen a picture of it,and it's a real behemoth.It,s inverted,and from what I could see,it looked like it's liquid cooled.Incidentally,they also built an inline 16 cylinder hemi aircraft engine,but they only made 1 test engine,and I don't remember why,but they scrapped the project and never built but the one.It's in the Walter P.Chrysler museum.It's liquid cooled also.

panic · Post by **panic** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:54 pm

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:23 am

dude i've seen that giant pucker nut motor. over 100,000 horsepower and 5,000,000 lb ft of torque. Whered u get thos pictures?

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:13 am

The US uses Nuclear Technology and this is the best thing the Asians could come up with?

panic · Post by **panic** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:01 pm

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:48 pm

MG42pillbox wrote:(any one out their saying the p51 mustang was the best might as well say the Ford mustang was the best in the 60s).

Time for an arguement. Though excellent in a dive, and possessing good speed, the P-51 was just as fast and more maneuverable than the Thunderbolt. Both aircraft could carry an incredable amount of ordanence though the P-47 could carry more. The final round goes to the Mustang though as the P-51D had a much greater range. Major Preddy, America's top ace in the ETO scored all 26 of his kills in a Mustang.

Just for comparisons sake, Germany's top ace Eric Hartmann scored 352 Kills, all in a Daimler-Benz (liquid cooled) powered Bf109G. It only takes 5 kills to become an ace.

As for the Mustang Vs the Corsair, I've never seen any comparisons, thogh I believe the Corsair was the superior of the two.

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:00 am

Ritterkreuz wrote:
MG42pillbox wrote:(any one out their saying the p51 mustang was the best might as well say the Ford mustang was the best in the 60s).
Time for an arguement. Though excellent in a dive, and possessing good speed, the P-51 was just as fast and more maneuverable than the Thunderbolt. Both aircraft could carry an incredable amount of ordanence though the P-47 could carry more. The final round goes to the Mustang though as the P-51D had a much greater range. Major Preddy, America's top ace in the ETO scored all 26 of his kills in a Mustang.

Just for comparisons sake, Germany's top ace Eric Hartmann scored 352 Kills, all in a Daimler-Benz (liquid cooled) powered Bf109G. It only takes 5 kills to become an ace.

As for the Mustang Vs the Corsair, I've never seen any comparisons, thogh I believe the Corsair was the superior of the two.

You are close, but the Corsair was superior in 8 out of the 10 most important characteristics of a WW2 fighter, out of all,the 51 only had a slight visibly advantage, and better range, The p51 was also the most flimsiest and easiest fighter plane the United States has ever built. The CV F-4U was also designed almost 5 years earlier, the 38s and 47s were superior in most categories except for the 2 mentioned before, and turn rate and climb VS the 47. The 51 is the most often overrated fighter of WW2, not the best. The Germans were masterful flyers and superb "shots" when it came to combat period, It has nothing to do with their benz water cooled engines. The German Engines were superior to the Brits, however. the 109 is also a superior fighter plane compared to the p51.

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Sat May 01, 2004 8:34 am

The hight of 109 turn rate ended with the F. The Gustav's and Karl's were boom and zoom fighters and not the dogfighters of old as the Messerschmidt design team focused more and more on speed above all else. The 109 was arguably the best fighter on the western front. The Russian LaGG-7's (air-cooled) and Yak-3's (Liquid-cooled) seemed more than a match for all but the most expert of Luftwaffe pilots, with the Yak-9 (Liquid-cooled), Russia's most prominant mid to late war fighter, an equal. That the engine made no difference is true, I was just pointing out what it had is all. Josef 'Pips' Priller scored the majority of his kills flying the Fw 190A, an air-cooled aircraft with a BMW built engine. Often considered superior to the 109 but I disagree as it seemed a much easier fighter to stall.

The Mustang had what we needed when we needed it. Good speed, good maneuverability, the ability to carry a decent load of ordanence, and long-range. It was one of the most well-rounded fighters of the war. It was also much mor forgiving than the Jug in that it had somewhat better stall characteristics as well.

panic · Post by **panic** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:35 pm

hemikid · Post by **hemikid** » Sun May 02, 2004 12:29 am

MG42pillbox wrote:And yes that is the length, Over 10'..... So how many 5' long v8s do you see ???

I thought it was a pair of straight eight's joined at the crank.

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Sun May 02, 2004 9:08 pm

panic wrote:You're in pretty good shape for someone over 80 years old.
You were speaking from personal experience, weren't you?

If you're talking to me, I'm 25. I hang out with pilots often, many of whom have flown restored WWII aircraft, including a few guys who test aircraft for the purpose of making flight sims. I also have an almost obsessive interest in WWII.

My screen name here, Ritterkreuz, is german for Knights Cross. Germany's Highest award in WWII, it came in several grades.

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:17 pm

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:37 pm

Let's take a look at what I said.

"one of the most well-rounded fighters of the war".

I never claimed it was better than the F4U.

As for length of service, yes, the Corsair served right up though Korea, and was, in my opinion the best piston engined fighter the Navy ever flew (better than the F8F if you ask me). As for the Mustangs longevity, the F-51B remained in service with the USAF until 1949. The F-51K remained in limited service until 1951 while the F-51D served right up through the Korean War. Additionally, many Mustangs ended up serving in the airforces of developing nations, with Israeli Mustangs seeing extensive action during the Suez Crisis in 1956. The Dominican Republic was the final Military operator of the Mustang, not retiring its last F-51D’s until 1984, some forty one years after the first XP-51D prototype flew.

Now, I'm not even going to try to draw a comparison for the early Allison engined P-51's as they were, well, terrible at best.

Actually, why are we even argueing about the Corsair Vs. the Mustang as I've already said:
"As for the Mustang Vs the Corsair, I've never seen any comparisons, though I believe the Corsair was the superior of the two."

I only defend the Mustang as it seems to be coming under a lot of attack lately. The P-51 was a good fighter, the best the Western allies had in the ETO, though the P-38 was a close second. I've not yet read of any F4U's used in the ETO. In the Pacific the Mustang served as a good escort for the B-29's, which I will concede was the only role in which it was superior to the F4U (again due to its range).

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:43 pm

How is the 51 coming under "attack" lately? I constantly hear how it was the "best THIS" and "best THAT" by so many people, when there are a handful of fighters that were more capable in many ways. The 38s were superior, as were the 47s.

panic · Post by **panic** » Fri May 07, 2004 4:34 pm

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Sat May 08, 2004 1:46 am

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Mon May 10, 2004 8:59 am

(Ritterkreuz) In this case, would be the conversing opposition. Hes obviously at a much higher level of knowledgeability than the average forum rat

Thanks! I would not think of this as an arguement or contest as panic said, but rather a fun debate/conversation about WWII aircraft. It's very hard for me to find somebody who has enough knowledge on the subject to give me agood debate, I'm rather quite enjoying this conversation MG42pillbox.

As for first hand accounts, again, I know several people who test/fly vintage aircraft, a few of which do so for the purpose of making flight sims. Also, old people love someone who will listen to them, I love WWII, the combination of these two facts has allowed me to listen to many first hand accounts of the war.

Back to the debate
The P-38 certainly had a better armorment than the P-51 with its central 20mm canon. Its interesting that the USAAF and USN seemed to have a real distaste toward canon. The US's top ace of WWII, Dick Bong scored all of his kills in a P-38. The P-38's downfall, she just didn't have the range, and she presented a bigger target. Also, the Mustang was somewhat more manuverable, and much more comfortable at high altitude, as the P-38's cockpit heater was notorious for burning a pilot's butt while the rest of his body froze.

As for the Jug being better, we had that debate already.

dodgedifferent2 · Post by **dodgedifferent2** » Mon May 10, 2004 1:05 pm

Ritterkreuz wrote: Major Preddy, America's top ace in the ETO scored all 26 of his kills in a Mustang.

Just for comparisons sake, Germany's top ace Eric Hartmann scored 352 Kills, all in a Daimler-Benz (liquid cooled) powered Bf109G. It only takes 5 kills to become an ace..

doesnt it take 5 kills in one outing to become an ace?? at least that was to my understanding
and i thought the Spitfire would be more superior to p-47 and 51

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Mon May 10, 2004 1:48 pm

It only took 5 kills to be considered an ace, but many scoreed more than that durring WWII. The highest scoring allied pilot was a Russian fighter ace with 78 kills. By contrast Germany had 18 pilots with over 200 kills! Indeed, it is a german pilot who holds the record for the most kills in a single day. Hauptmann (Captain) Hans-Joachim Marseille downed 17 in one day. It is interesting that the Red Baron (Manfred von Richtoven) had 80 kills in WWI and is very famous, yet Eric Hartman, the world's record holder with 352 is virtually unheard of outside aviation circles.

The Spitfire was an excellent point defense fighter, but lacked range. She also was incapable of carrying much in the way of a bomb load (in fact most marks never carried any). Pilot's also complained about rear cockpit visability despite the bubble (Malcolm) Hood. Still, it was a good fighter and could easily stand toe to toe against the Bf109. The FW 190 offered an initial challange, but later marks were equal to the 190 as well.

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:07 am

Here's is a pic of an A-36 (Mustang Mk I), the Allison engined Mustang with bombload. The P-51D had slightly stronger wings

TheHEMI.com