The 426 HEMI has 500 HP ???

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Wed May 12, 2004 8:50 pm

I have read in one of my many Mopar books that the 426 HEMI actually has 500 HP, and that Chrysler rated it at 425. Has anyone else heard about this? If so please reply !!!

cbxlr8r · Post by **cbxlr8r** » Wed May 12, 2004 10:24 pm

Auto manufacturers used to do that all of the time. Ford was notorious for that.

They would take an engine and rate its horsepower at a lower RPM.

Cheve did the same with the 396 that they put in the 'Vette. It was rated at 425HP@6,400 RPMs in the 'Vette but at 375HP@ something like 5,600 RPMs in the '69 Camaro...yet they were both the L78 engine (I have a die hard Chevy friend).

I have read several times that the 426 Hemi produced as much as 525HP...but don't take that as gospel. I recall that the 525HP rating though was with a dual 4-barrel setup.

Even the 5.7 Hemi in the RAM...in the 1500 and 2500, it is rated at 345HP@5,400RPMs but in the 3500 it is rated at 330HP@4,800 RPMs.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:12 pm

I was re-reading the book again and it turns out that it was Tom Hoover himself that said the HEMI had 500 HP so maybe it did. Anyhow it still kicks Ford's and Chev's butt so im happy!!!!!

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:44 am

cbxlr8r wrote:Auto manufacturers used to do that all of the time. Ford was notorious for that.

They would take an engine and rate its horsepower at a lower RPM.

Ford is "notorious" for highly overrating their engines. A Stock Late 60s Rat Trap would often smoke Ford Boss Stangs and even Cobras. (thats just the 440 6 Pack RTs) Chrysler Engines are often rated conservatively.
Ford was dead last in the muscle car era, the best thing they could do was lie. (They have yet to slow down at what they are best at.)
Chevy has also overratted a few engines.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Mon May 17, 2004 3:49 pm

In the HEMI's case, it was underrated. I geuss they did that just to make the competition feel like they could satnd a chance. Chrysler didn't need to overrate thier engines they had the highest HP anyway. On the otherhand, Ford has always been dead last and always will be. That new Triton V8 scares me though, with 300 HP holly watch out. (LOL)

PS

FORD EATS IT !!!

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:37 pm

Dodge Boy wrote:In the HEMI's case, it was underrated. I geuss they did that just to make the competition feel like they could satnd a chance. Chrysler didn't need to overrate thier engines they had the highest HP anyway. On the otherhand, Ford has always been dead last and always will be. That new Triton V8 scares me though, with 300 HP holly watch out. (LOL)

PS

FORD EATS IT !!!

Good Boy

cbxlr8r · Post by **cbxlr8r** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:36 pm

MG42pillbox wrote:
cbxlr8r wrote:Auto manufacturers used to do that all of the time. Ford was notorious for that.

They would take an engine and rate its horsepower at a lower RPM.
Ford is "notorious" for highly overrating their engines. A Stock Late 60s Rat Trap would often smoke Ford Boss Stangs and even Cobras. (thats just the 440 6 Pack RTs) Chrysler Engines are often rated conservatively.
Ford was dead last in the muscle car era, the best thing they could do was lie. (They have yet to slow down at what they are best at.)
Chevy has also overratted a few engines.

I am not going to argue the point because it will go nowhere but further into an argument...but I do disagree about Ford overstating HP. The 427 has repeatedly surprised people because it makes more power than stated.

With Ford being dead last...I disagree with that as well. In the mid-60s, Ford took a Fairlane and bolted (with major modifications) a 427 into it...they proceeded to stomp the crap out of the RamChargers of the day.

Ford named it the Thunderbolt...it was aptly named.

I am not a Ford person...I think that they lack a true engineering department...but they did have their moment in the Sun.

Other than that...I am done.

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:05 pm

The Ramchargers Destroyed the T,bolts for years with the max wedges. The Chargers often had to go up against other Chargers for the final contest Runs. (ford was the one that had to do all the catching up. The particular Ford (racing version) 427s "of those years" were one of the few engines that had a conservative power estimate. (SOHC versions were also worthless in longevity or durability. When the 2nd Generation Hemi was introduced from Mopar, Ford didnt have a prayer.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Thu May 20, 2004 5:00 pm

Allow me to correct both of you. Ford never did have a prayer! LOL. The 427 was a decent engine but really it was severely overshadowed by the success of the 426 HEMI. Ford never did "stamp the crap" out of RamChargers. Don't downplay the 426 Max Wedge so fast, it stood its ground against Ford and GM while it was around. It could easilly produce a hefty 425 HP if not more. Another thing, Ford was dead last because that 427 POS did nothing when Mopar was dominnating nascar throughout the 60s, with the race HEMI, which by the way produced 600 HP......numbers that Ford could only dream about while modifying thier scrap metal. Let me tell you even the most diehard Ford and GM fans hold the HEMI at high esteem, though they won't admitt to it.

One other point though. Ford's Gran Torino did "outgun" the Charger 500, (during the 69 Daytona 500). After that, Dodge went to work and designed the Dodge Charger Daytona to get an edge on Ford in aerodinamics department of the race car. The Daytona captured the pole in its first ever race , Talladega 500. The big showdown between Dodge and Ford never really materiallized because Ford drivers backed out of the race due to unsafe driving contitions, if you can buy that crap. Basically Ford chickened out. The Daytona won the race by a country mile, setting a record for fastest stockcar, at a speed of 199.644 m/h. My entire point is...... Ford beats Mopar once and Mopar throws it right back in thier faces ten times better. For future reference don't ever say a Ford product "stamped the crap" out of a Mopar, because them outrunning Mopar in any race (Nascar or Drag), was a very, very, very rare ocurrence.

(Just to be clear I am not barking down your throat cbxlr8r. Im just setting the facts straight, not dissagreeing with you for the sake of arguement.)

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Fri May 21, 2004 12:35 am

Actaully little dude the Ford 427 is one of the reasons that the 426 Hemi was developed. While not a Hemi the Ford 427's canted valve design is a very effective design at high RPM. Thus in the early days when chrysler raced the 426 Max Wedges in NASCAR they fell to 427s more often than one might think. I wish i could remember where i read it, but i clearly remember reading that there are a select few automobiles nameley Thunderbolt style automobiles are permitted to race in the Hemi Superstock class. Between the Ford 427 High Riser and the 426 Hemi they were kinda close with the exception of high RPM flow, where yes the Hemi wins hands down. In a drag racing perspective however the 427 is an extremely formidable opponent. If you don't kep your eye on it, it will sneak up and bite you. And as far as Ford's big blocks being junk i beg to differ the national NHRA stock record is held by a ford big block at something 9.89 second 1/4 mile in a Ford fairlane. Ford had good ideas and had very good engineers, they just took some wrong turns. Had they been able to produce the 427 Cammer in the numbers needed the 426 Hemi's street domination would have been greatly overshadowed. Not trying to start crap just saying. Ford's FE engines are extremely well designed and extremely pwerful, not something to be underestimated.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:28 pm

383Dart wrote:Actaully little dude the Ford 427 is one of the reasons that the 426 Hemi was developed. While not a Hemi the Ford 427's canted valve design is a very effective design at high RPM. Thus in the early days when chrysler raced the 426 Max Wedges in NASCAR they fell to 427s more often than one might think. I wish i could remember where i read it, but i clearly remember reading that there are a select few automobiles nameley Thunderbolt style automobiles are permitted to race in the Hemi Superstock class. Between the Ford 427 High Riser and the 426 Hemi they were kinda close with the exception of high RPM flow, where yes the Hemi wins hands down. In a drag racing perspective however the 427 is an extremely formidable opponent. If you don't kep your eye on it, it will sneak up and bite you. And as far as Ford's big blocks being junk i beg to differ the national NHRA stock record is held by a ford big block at something 9.89 second 1/4 mile in a Ford fairlane. Ford had good ideas and had very good engineers, they just took some wrong turns. Had they been able to produce the 427 Cammer in the numbers needed the 426 Hemi's street domination would have been greatly overshadowed. Not trying to start crap just saying. Ford's FE engines are extremely well designed and extremely pwerful, not something to be underestimated.

383 Dart, are you a Ford fan or something? If so, then just come right out and say that.

That record that the Ford Fairlane holds is, most likely not with the factory engine. It was probably modified up the ying-yang before running the 1/4 mile in 9.89 seconds. Unlike Ford's engines Mopar's ran great on the drag-strip right from the factory. eg: Max Wedges, and 440 six-packs.......not to mention the HEMI. I'l hand it to ya, the 427 was a pretty good engine in its time, but please, don't even compare it to the HEMI. The HEMI was the far supperior engine. I'v read that the only engine that you could even compare evenly with the HEMI was, GM's 427 ZL1.

Check out this website: http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars ... ines.shtml. You can read about all the engines and all thier respective "specs".

Note: On this webpage they rate the 426 HEMI's HP at 425. Tom Hoover (head designer on the 426 HEMI) once stated once that the HEMI produced 500 HP. Chrysler was hesitant to rate it at 500 HP because insureance would be sky-high, and could scare away pottential buyers.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:35 pm

But the 427 is comparable to the hemi in several ways. I have had a hand in building a little of everything and the Ford 427 High Riser and an original BO29 Hemi are by far the 2 finest machines i have ever had the pleasure of working with. The Ford 427 is a good engine. Its second the only the hemi. No the 427 ZL1 will not run with a Hemi, nor would it run with a Ford 427. The 427 ZL1 was a last ditch effort by a company that was desperate. Contrary to popular belief the 426 can be beatin and it has been beatin. Granted the 426 Hemi has probably won more times in all than lost but it can be beatin. I've helped build 3 hemi's in my short time here on earth, and they are by far my favorite engine, but they are my favorite because of the uniqueness of there design, because of the engineering and hte quality that went into to there design, in those departments they are superior to any other V8 i've ever worked on including the 427 high riser, but to call the Ford 427 High Riser junk is wrong, you are wrong. It is not a junk motor, and yes i am a Ford fan, Ford is my second favorite car corporation ever first being Chrysler, and i'll tell you one more thing as far as street domination goes you'd be better off building a Chrysler wedge motor than a Hemi. The Hemi was designed as a race motor such is why it Dominates in Super Stock and Top Fuel. It is not a good street motor period, anyone who knows anything will tell you that. Dan Dvorak even said that to me. The Hemi is not bullet proof bottom line or unbeatable, and there are a few Ford big blocks running with the Hemi's in their own super stock class. I'm just stating facts. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that the Hemi can be beatin.

hemipanter · Post by **hemipanter** » Sat May 22, 2004 3:23 am

383Dart wrote: It is not a good street motor period, anyone who knows anything will tell you that. Dan Dvorak even said that to me. The Hemi is not bullet proof bottom line or unbeatable, and there are a few Ford big blocks running with the Hemi's in their own super stock class. I'm just stating facts. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that the Hemi can be beatin.

Dont take me to seriously...
Whats the problem with the Hemi as a street motor??? Just give it a few cubes more and the big chambers dont need to big dome on the piston.
It have room for looong rods as a stroker. And has a very goot supply of custom parts via KB and others. Easy to order as it concernes basically one type of engine block as a mallet. (Few communication misstakes to make).
The Hemi must be the ultimate internal combustion!
Goran Malmberg

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:09 am

383Dart wrote:But the 427 is comparable to the hemi in several ways. I have had a hand in building a little of everything and the Ford 427 High Riser and an original BO29 Hemi are by far the 2 finest machines i have ever had the pleasure of working with. The Ford 427 is a good engine. Its second the only the hemi. No the 427 ZL1 will not run with a Hemi, nor would it run with a Ford 427. The 427 ZL1 was a last ditch effort by a company that was desperate. Contrary to popular belief the 426 can be beatin and it has been beatin. Granted the 426 Hemi has probably won more times in all than lost but it can be beatin. I've helped build 3 hemi's in my short time here on earth, and they are by far my favorite engine, but they are my favorite because of the uniqueness of there design, because of the engineering and hte quality that went into to there design, in those departments they are superior to any other V8 i've ever worked on including the 427 high riser, but to call the Ford 427 High Riser junk is wrong, you are wrong. It is not a junk motor, and yes i am a Ford fan, Ford is my second favorite car corporation ever first being Chrysler, and i'll tell you one more thing as far as street domination goes you'd be better off building a Chrysler wedge motor than a Hemi. The Hemi was designed as a race motor such is why it Dominates in Super Stock and Top Fuel. It is not a good street motor period, anyone who knows anything will tell you that. Dan Dvorak even said that to me. The Hemi is not bullet proof bottom line or unbeatable, and there are a few Ford big blocks running with the Hemi's in their own super stock class. I'm just stating facts. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that the Hemi can be beatin.

I can respect your opinion, the 427 was Ford's "big powerhouse". And its also allright if you are a Ford fan. Pardon me for saying so, but the 427 ZL1 can run with the HEMI. But im gonna be more specific: The 427 ZL1 can run with the HEMI when in a Corvette, thats what I have read in more than one place anyway. It stood its ground well, and was a good engine.

As you probaly know I am very bias to Mopar product. My fammily has been selling Chrysler for about 30 years now, and my grandfather used to drag race HEMI powered cars back in the 60s. So you can see why I am bias to Mopar. On the other hand, I'me not the type to say Mopar rocks and everyone else sucks, because its not like that. To clarify when I was talking about the race HEMI and it producing 600 HP, and said "numers Ford could only dream about, while modifying thier scrap metal", I was refering to thier cars, not the engine itself. But your not paying the HEMI the respect it deserves when you compare it with a 427. Yes the numbers are pretty close but the HEMI was hands down a way better engine. In short it was in a league of its own. Question : why was the 427 a big reason why the 426 HEMI was built?

One thing that Im having trouble understanding though, why was the HEMI not a good street motor? Sure it was high maintenance but really, not your average buyer would walk in and buy one. Only the performance enthusiests. And even some of those would go for the cheaper option, the 440 six-pack. To get more bang for thier buck. The HEMI was an awsome street motor. It was built for racing and modified to fit nascar's production standards, therfore was a perfomance machine on the road. It wasn't used to run to the grocery store on a Saturday afternoon, it was built to dominate racing, and it did. The HEMI was a drag strip terror. Why else would they call it "the ultimate american V8". I never said the HEMI was unbeatable, but it wasn't beatin very often. How can you like Ford and Chrysler, you got me stumped on that one, but thats your problem that your a Ford enthusiest.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:12 pm

No the ZL1 was whiped out in one race by the Hemi. Its time on the drag strip was short and pointless, and the ZL1 was ultimately retired to road racing (CANAM crap) status. The 426 Hemi is a fine street mill but not a great one, the hemi was esigned as a nascar engine first thus it was designed to be run at very high RPM, and was most effecient at higher RPM my old man hung out with alot of mopar guys and saw the 440 Six squirters beat the Hemis more of ten than the Hemis beat them. The Chrysler wedge motor is a better suited design for the street period. Matter of factly i was speaking with a guy the other night who raced Hemis in the 60's and he'd also tell you that Hemi's were designed for high RPM andrace gas or alcohol, thats just simply what they were designed to do. You can make a street engine a race engine but u can't very easily make a race engine a street engine. Anyway this guy took a big cube Hemi and had large port wedge heads adapted to fit it and the car became faster in street form than it was with the hemi. The Hemi may have been the ultimate race mill but it was not the ultimate street mill. And another thing you keep making referance the 50 fastest list the First Car on that List is a Shelby Cobra that had the 427 high riser. Then at number 3 we have the great 440 6 pack Road Runner meep meep. I've seen Completely stock 440 six pack superbees, i mean stock right down to bias ply tires run 12.45s and some a little quicker. Out of the box the 440 Six Packs were quiker than hemis in street form, now getting into racing the hemis win hands down because of their capability to flow massive amounts of air at high RPM, and another point anything past a 1/4 mile and a Hemi will beat a 440+6, for the very same reason. I helped a friend of mine put a Hemi in his Belvedere, it has 4.10s and a 4 speed, he gets beat regularly by a guy with a 440+6 Roadrunner with a 4 speed and 4.10s. It all boils down to effectiveness at low RPM. The Chrysler wedge motors were better suited for low RPM power, i.e. stop light to stop light, 1/4 mile drag racing in stock trim. In race trim 9/10 times the Hemi will win, with short gears and high converters the Hemi will rain supreme, but lets be honest would rather have an butt stomping wedge motor that stock for stock can beat hemis, or an extremely high revving big block with 4.56s and 3000rpm stall that you can't get out of your driveway without emptying your tank? My point all boild down to the wedge heads are better motors for lower RPM power end of story. And ZL1s were not all that fast in street trim, with street tires and full exhaust they pulled low 13's, Hemi cudas ran faster with 3.54s ZL1 Camaros has 4.10s and there were only 2 Corvettes made and they weren't any quicker in street trim with 3.73's. The whole idea behind the ZL1 was weight loss, the cylinder heads while aluminum were not like the high flowing pieces that can be bought on the aftermarket today. The engine was simply cast in aluminum to save weight.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:29 pm

383Dart wrote:No the ZL1 was whiped out in one race by the Hemi. Its time on the drag strip was short and pointless, and the ZL1 was ultimately retired to road racing (CANAM crap) status. The 426 Hemi is a fine street mill but not a great one, the hemi was esigned as a nascar engine first thus it was designed to be run at very high RPM, and was most effecient at higher RPM my old man hung out with alot of mopar guys and saw the 440 Six squirters beat the Hemis more of ten than the Hemis beat them. The Chrysler wedge motor is a better suited design for the street period. Matter of factly i was speaking with a guy the other night who raced Hemis in the 60's and he'd also tell you that Hemi's were designed for high RPM andrace gas or alcohol, thats just simply what they were designed to do. You can make a street engine a race engine but u can't very easily make a race engine a street engine. Anyway this guy took a big cube Hemi and had large port wedge heads adapted to fit it and the car became faster in street form than it was with the hemi. The Hemi may have been the ultimate race mill but it was not the ultimate street mill. And another thing you keep making referance the 50 fastest list the First Car on that List is a Shelby Cobra that had the 427 high riser. Then at number 3 we have the great 440 6 pack Road Runner meep meep. I've seen Completely stock 440 six pack superbees, i mean stock right down to bias ply tires run 12.45s and some a little quicker. Out of the box the 440 Six Packs were quiker than hemis in street form, now getting into racing the hemis win hands down because of their capability to flow massive amounts of air at high RPM, and another point anything past a 1/4 mile and a Hemi will beat a 440+6, for the very same reason. I helped a friend of mine put a Hemi in his Belvedere, it has 4.10s and a 4 speed, he gets beat regularly by a guy with a 440+6 Roadrunner with a 4 speed and 4.10s. It all boils down to effectiveness at low RPM. The Chrysler wedge motors were better suited for low RPM power, i.e. stop light to stop light, 1/4 mile drag racing in stock trim. In race trim 9/10 times the Hemi will win, with short gears and high converters the Hemi will rain supreme, but lets be honest would rather have an butt stomping wedge motor that stock for stock can beat hemis, or an extremely high revving big block with 4.56s and 3000rpm stall that you can't get out of your driveway without emptying your tank? My point all boild down to the wedge heads are better motors for lower RPM power end of story. And ZL1s were not all that fast in street trim, with street tires and full exhaust they pulled low 13's, Hemi cudas ran faster with 3.54s ZL1 Camaros has 4.10s and there were only 2 Corvettes made and they weren't any quicker in street trim with 3.73's. The whole idea behind the ZL1 was weight loss, the cylinder heads while aluminum were not like the high flowing pieces that can be bought on the aftermarket today. The engine was simply cast in aluminum to save weight.

Ok first of all I never refered to the HEMI as the "ultimate street mill" I refered to it as an "awsome" steet mill. Just to put this whole ZL1 thing to bed It never did beat a HEMI but could run with it "ocassionally" but not too often. Just remember Chev really did have anything like the HEMI or for that matter 427. They were always lugging behind. I never did refer to any 50 fastest list at all. I have a few times, and I've seen alot more Mopars on it than Fords.

Your just gonna have to face it, the HEMI was the ultimate engine. From Nascar to the 1/4 mile, it pure and simple dominated. They don't call it an elephant for nothing. Why do you think it was banned from Nascar? It upped the performanc ante so much that the others couldn't even compete. When modified it was unbeatable. In pure stock form, it was more than equal to other engines. It had more potential for pure horsepower than any othe musclecar engine ever made, PERIOD.

And to put this whole 427 VS HEMI thing to rest, the 427 was an alternate engine for guys that couldn't afford the HEMI option, on the Dodge/Plymouth option lists.

cbxlr8r · Post by **cbxlr8r** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:51 pm

Dodge Boy wrote:
383Dart wrote:No the ZL1 was whiped out in one race by the Hemi. Its time on the drag strip was short and pointless, and the ZL1 was ultimately retired to road racing (CANAM crap) status. The 426 Hemi is a fine street mill but not a great one, the hemi was esigned as a nascar engine first thus it was designed to be run at very high RPM, and was most effecient at higher RPM my old man hung out with alot of mopar guys and saw the 440 Six squirters beat the Hemis more of ten than the Hemis beat them. The Chrysler wedge motor is a better suited design for the street period. Matter of factly i was speaking with a guy the other night who raced Hemis in the 60's and he'd also tell you that Hemi's were designed for high RPM andrace gas or alcohol, thats just simply what they were designed to do. You can make a street engine a race engine but u can't very easily make a race engine a street engine. Anyway this guy took a big cube Hemi and had large port wedge heads adapted to fit it and the car became faster in street form than it was with the hemi. The Hemi may have been the ultimate race mill but it was not the ultimate street mill. And another thing you keep making referance the 50 fastest list the First Car on that List is a Shelby Cobra that had the 427 high riser. Then at number 3 we have the great 440 6 pack Road Runner meep meep. I've seen Completely stock 440 six pack superbees, i mean stock right down to bias ply tires run 12.45s and some a little quicker. Out of the box the 440 Six Packs were quiker than hemis in street form, now getting into racing the hemis win hands down because of their capability to flow massive amounts of air at high RPM, and another point anything past a 1/4 mile and a Hemi will beat a 440+6, for the very same reason. I helped a friend of mine put a Hemi in his Belvedere, it has 4.10s and a 4 speed, he gets beat regularly by a guy with a 440+6 Roadrunner with a 4 speed and 4.10s. It all boils down to effectiveness at low RPM. The Chrysler wedge motors were better suited for low RPM power, i.e. stop light to stop light, 1/4 mile drag racing in stock trim. In race trim 9/10 times the Hemi will win, with short gears and high converters the Hemi will rain supreme, but lets be honest would rather have an butt stomping wedge motor that stock for stock can beat hemis, or an extremely high revving big block with 4.56s and 3000rpm stall that you can't get out of your driveway without emptying your tank? My point all boild down to the wedge heads are better motors for lower RPM power end of story. And ZL1s were not all that fast in street trim, with street tires and full exhaust they pulled low 13's, Hemi cudas ran faster with 3.54s ZL1 Camaros has 4.10s and there were only 2 Corvettes made and they weren't any quicker in street trim with 3.73's. The whole idea behind the ZL1 was weight loss, the cylinder heads while aluminum were not like the high flowing pieces that can be bought on the aftermarket today. The engine was simply cast in aluminum to save weight.

Ok first of all I never refered to the HEMI as the "ultimate street mill" I refered to it as an "awsome" steet mill. Just to put this whole ZL1 thing to bed It never did beat a HEMI but could run with it "ocassionally" but not too often. Just remember Chev really did have anything like the HEMI or for that matter 427. They were always lugging behind. I never did refer to any 50 fastest list at all. I have a few times, and I've seen alot more Mopars on it than Fords.

Your just gonna have to face it, the HEMI was the ultimate engine. From Nascar to the 1/4 mile, it pure and simple dominated. They don't call it an elephant for nothing. Why do you think it was banned from Nascar? It upped the performanc ante so much that the others couldn't even compete. When modified it was unbeatable. In pure stock form, it was more than equal to other engines. It had more potential for pure horsepower than any othe musclecar engine ever made, PERIOD.

And to put this whole 427 VS HEMI thing to rest, the 427 was an alternate engine for guys that couldn't afford the HEMI option, on the Dodge/Plymouth option lists.

You've got all of the answers...I do not see any reason for anone else to post here. They are wrong before they even start typing.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Sun May 23, 2004 3:06 am

Well if you know so much than lets hear it smart guy. You can tell me i'm wrong but i want to know why i am wrong. I'm stimply stating what i've been told byt the likes of Dan Dvorak, and several other old beer drinking drag racers who could put hemi's together with their eyes closed.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:35 am

Its all matter of opinion wheather the HEMI was a great street machine or not. Same with the likes of 427 ZL1s and 427s. Some will say it was, some will say it wasn,t. So there is no real point in arguing that. The HEMI being the best engine of its time is also a matter of opinion. It doesn't really matter how smart I am, or how many facts I have read, Its just whatever you or I want to believe. And I agree with you the HEMI can be beat. Anything can be beat and will be beat eventually.

Im not gonna argue this point any further because it won't get me anywhere. Everyones gonna like what they wanna like right. But what fun would this forum be if everyone agreed with the same thing. Thats the great thing about it, everyone has different opinions. I respec yours and you probably respect mine (in some ways), so lets move on with our lives.

cbxlr8r · Post by **cbxlr8r** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:08 pm

383 Dart...I was not directing my last post to you.

I agree with you.

I was being facetious to Dodge Boy.

It seems that everytime that you post...he tells you that you are wrong.

I find that it is most anoying...especially coming from a 15 year old kid who did not grow up in the Muscle Car era.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:07 pm

haha ok man its all good i wasn't angry i was just a bit confused because you had made a mention above of the 427 and if Dodge Boy Would have seen the High Riser i helped build run and i helped build one with tunnel port heads once too if he'd see those run head to head with the few hemis around here they run neck and neck alot. As far as 15 year olds telling me i'm wrong, im used to it but this is an exceptional case most 15 year olds like Hondas so Dodge Boy is cool enough i myself am only 20 but i've seen some crap lemme tell ya.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:16 pm

I wish I did grow up in the musclecar era, but I didn't so theres not much I can do about that. I do do alot of reading and research though, so I do know my stuff. And yes alot of kids my age think the Civic is a hot car, if you guys can believe that. They think if you put rims and body stickers on a car its gonna run like Ferrari or something. I just can't understand why they do it at all. As for the last few days of back and forth about the 427 and HEMI, I wasn't saying anyone was right or wrong in the matter. I was just expressing my very biased opinion for Mopars. I know that the HEMI can be beat, its very very hard for me to face it though, thats why I kept dissagreeing. But thats all in the past now so lets all move on.

PS

Sorry if I offended either of you guys (383dart/cxlr8r), that was not my intention in any of my previuos posts.

hemipanter · Post by **hemipanter** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:44 pm

Guess the main factor for a powerful engine is the builder. Many times class rules makes one engine better.
My former engine was a stroked Ford 460 (502 cui) with Motrosport aluheads. The HEMI is the winner of the two. Ok, the HEMI got injection and tunnel ram, while the Ford had dominator and single plane. But even so, there is to big difference in TQ to only come from the difference in induction.
To me a 550-600 cui must makes the HEMI a very great street motor.
Both the channels and chamber comes to its right then.
If I ever build a new motor it will be a 600 Hemi.
Goran Malmberg

cbxlr8r · Post by **cbxlr8r** » Tue May 25, 2004 12:03 am

You did not offend me Dodge Boy.

I am 36 and grew up when Musclecars were still around in full glory.

I am also bias towards Chrysler...I have owned 7 of them.

I just do remember that there was an intense rivalry between Ford and Chrysler and the 426 and 427 were at the heart of it.

Take care.

MG42pillbox · Post by **MG42pillbox** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:09 pm

LOL, I agree with all In many ways. Stock, the Wedge was awesome, and in any apples to apples stock race comparison would smoke and model, of any make in the 60s. But when modded, the Hemi was just about untouchable. (Dodge/Plmouth never had a Europeaon car with their engine in it to compare to the Cobra. (So that wouldn't be apples to apples). Mopar muscle cars of much larger girth would often surprise many Cobra and vett owners. If the weights were the same fords snake and chevys vett wouldnt have a prayer.

(but what about Hurst)
?