Ford coppies Chrysler's HEMI in 65 !

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:05 pm

I was reading earlier, on my musclecar info site (musclecarclub.com) that in 1965 Ford came out with an engine for the soul purpose of competing with the 426 HEMI. It was called the "427 Cammer". This is what the website had to say about this engine:

"Without a doubt the most powerful engine ever made, the Ford 427 Cammer was developed with the intention of taking on Chrysler's Hemis. Ford gave the 427 block new heads with hemispherical combustion chambers. To cap that, they fitted overhead camshafts -- one per cylinder bank -- which gave the engine its name and allowed it to rev to an unheard of 7,500 rpm. With the regular single four barrel carb, the "cammer" put out 616 bhp, but with dual four-barrels, it produced a massive 657 bhp. With this kind of power, the "cammer" 427 was totally unsuitable for street use. These engines were not sold to the general public, but about 50 examples were built, mostly for professional drag racers. Because of the low production volumes, NASCAR refused to accept the engine as a regular production option, and thus Ford couldn't use the engine to combat the Hemi's. This sealed this engine's fate and Ford discontinued it after 1965".

This is a typical Ford thing to do. Hmmm I wonder where they got the idea for the "hemispherical combustion chamber". All Ford has ever known what to do was copy Chrysler's products, " if ya can't beat em join em" the saying goes. I think we all know that the most powerfull engine in the musclecar era, was and always will be the HEMI. That P.O.S Ford "427 Cammer", doesn't count because it was never produced.

cbxlr8r · Post by **cbxlr8r** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:42 pm

That engine was also called the "427 SOHC" motor.

It was an awesome engine.

Check this out...

"Ford kicked up a fuss about not being allowed to run their overhead cam 427 cubic inch top oiler in anything but a large, weight penalized Galaxie body. Ford claimed that it was putting out 625 horsepower. NASCAR did not change their ruling. To emphasize that he meant what he said, Bill France visited both the Ford and the Chrysler engine factories in 1966. Ford showed him the huge overhead cam V-8. He just said no. When he got to Chrysler's factory, he saw that the 426 racing Hemi had been changed to enable it to be a normal street application engine. It was made clear to him that the Hemi 426 was now a regular production engine, available to anyone that had the money to buy it.

He also saw Chrysler's answer to the overhead cam Ford engine. Chrysler had a double overhead cam 426 cubic inch V-8. It was a monster. It had already turned over 800 horsepower in factory tests. France took one look at that engine and exclaimed that it would never be allowed at NASCAR. As well, neither would the Ford cammer engine. Ford's answer was to pull out of racing on April 15th 1966. It did not have the effect that Chrysler's pull out had on NASCAR. "

The direct link to that page is... http://www.allpar.com/racing/petty-plymouth-racing.html

Go to this page and do some reading...there is some interesting info here.

Dodge Boy · Post by **Dodge Boy** » Thu May 20, 2004 5:06 pm

Great site man thanks. I love reading about the musclcar era. Im only 15 so I wasn't around to witness the greatest period in american automotive history.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 am

It wasn't so much the limited production that put the screws to the 427 and Hemi cammers as that they were very dangerous. The 427 Cammer for example had a 7 foot timing chain that had a tendency to "explode" throwing links everywhere. High power engines with over head cams are dangereous due to timing belts and chains. And then just to be a richard cranium France made the Hemi sit the '65 year out too which is why the likes of even The King himself tried drag racing, a Hemi Valiant Cuda no less.

dodavis5 · Post by **dodavis5** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:33 pm

The 427 SOHC was available to the general public. It was, however, only available over-the-counter as the engine only, it was never factory installed in a production vehicle. Production of the engine was way higher than 50 units, estimates range from 500 to 2500.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:25 pm

Where are all of the Cammers then? I mean seriously ones bound to pop up somewhere i see pictures here and there but not enough to hint at 2500 Cammers in existence Ya know what i mean?. if the 2500 were true then our beloved Hemi would not be the king.

dodavis5 · Post by **dodavis5** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:14 pm

There are actually a surprising number of them left. You would have to run in the Ford circles to know who has them. I know the owner of a performance shop in Seattle that has ten of them, at least one of which has never been removed from the original shipping crate. There is one on e-bay right now. I have one in my Shelby Mustang. They were very successful top fuel motors so a lot were blown up over the years. They were also popular to install in boats. Over the past 20 years I have personally seen 40-50 different cammer motors. Dove Manufacturing in Cleveland, OH has a lot of the original Ford tooling. Dove can produce a complete cammer motor but very $$$$$.

383Dart · Post by **383Dart** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:10 pm

thats pretty interesting. how much would an original cammer cost? do you have pictures of your cobra i adore those things.

mopardave · Post by **mopardave** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:44 am

The engine that Chrysler showed Bill France that was to compete with the Ford was not a working engine and was a dummy engine. It was such a radical looking engine that France said to Ronnie, You are not going to run that engine and Ford is not going to run their engine ever. Don't know how Ronnie found out about the Ford engine in time to mock up an engine.

moparornocar · Post by **moparornocar** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm

mopardave wrote:The engine that Chrysler showed Bill France that was to compete with the Ford was not a working engine and was a dummy engine. It was such a radical looking engine that France said to Ronnie, You are not going to run that engine and Ford is not going to run their engine ever. Don't know how Ronnie found out about the Ford engine in time to mock up an engine.

I have this complete story and pictures in the winter '89 edition of MOPAR MUSCLE. None ever ran, but the valve gear was motored with an electric motor.
I just today offered to lend my MM mag to Allpar and to this board for copying and posting if they desire. So the story may be available before long. I have never been able to find anything about it.

DELTUFFO · Post by **DELTUFFO** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:26 pm

My buddy has an 03 Cobra and we just swapped in a 427 Cammer with a Whipple SC.

Thing flies.

Don Nicklason · Post by **Don Nicklason** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:52 am

You guys need to read the NASCAR King Richard Petty's book. He tested & drove the 426. When his good Buddy Bobby Allison saw him testing, he bought a crate motor & put it in his Chevy & tested it. Said it was the most awesome thing he ever drove. The playing field was so lop sided they outlawed it.

OldIron · Post by **OldIron** » Wed May 04, 2005 10:54 am

http://www.oldandsold.com/articles01/ar ... s time."

OldIron · Post by **OldIron** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:07 am

It's kinda like say Dodge copied Ford or anyone else because they have 4 wheels on their car anyway. Current NASCAR engines all use "canted valve" cylinder heads which Ford was using first in the modern day small block era. Chevy had a similar head in the 60's with their 348/409 engines.

I've always been a Hemi fan but I'm lucky I managed to sort out fact from fiction intead of keeping the "My biased Dad said so and it's a fact" attitude.

peace all.

moparornocar · Post by **moparornocar** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:03 pm

OldIron wrote:It's kinda like say Dodge copied Ford or anyone else because they have 4 wheels on their car anyway. Current NASCAR engines all use "canted valve" cylinder heads which Ford was using first in the modern day small block era. Chevy had a similar head in the 60's with their 348/409 engines.

I've always been a Hemi fan but I'm lucky I managed to sort out fact from fiction intead of keeping the "My biased Dad said so and it's a fact" attitude.

peace all.

The '51 Chrysler Hemis AND the POLYS were considered "CANTED VALVE" engines as well as the "PORCUPINE" 396 Chevys and all were around before Ford's copy.

dodgedifferent2 · Post by **dodgedifferent2** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:08 am

427 ford is a semi hemi. not a true hemispherical chamber.

DaltonMasterson · Post by **DaltonMasterson** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:20 pm

Not to ignite an old fire, but didnt Chrysler copy Ford's Ardun conversions, to come up with the Hemi in the first place?

CrAzY MoPaR GuY · Post by **CrAzY MoPaR GuY** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:25 pm

DaltonMasterson wrote:Not to ignite an old fire, but didnt Chrysler copy Ford's Ardun conversions, to come up with the Hemi in the first place?

Great link for reading......
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/ardun.html

DaltonMasterson · Post by **DaltonMasterson** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:37 pm

Very good link. Imagine a little Peugot with a 426.

DM

desotoman · Post by **desotoman** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:34 pm

For general information the Hemispherical combustion chamber has been around for many many years, long before Chrysler or Ford ever made it into production. If you look back in Aviation and Motorcycle history, you will see many Hemi headed motors. Nothing is new, ideas just get refined and put into new motors.

TheHEMI.com

Ford coppies Chrysler's HEMI in 65 !

Ford coppies Chrysler's HEMI in 65 !

427 SOHC Production

427 SOHC production

Ford Hemi(?)

Re: Ford Hemi(?)

Experimental Hemi's

typical fanatic remark.