Can this block be saved?

[67vertman]

While treasure hunting for early Hemi parts I came across a 392 block (casting # 1673729-5) setting in the dirt behind a shop, the block is basically a short block, no heads or intake, and it appears the block was setting outside for a few years, the lifter valleys were full of dirt and the piston frozen, after dragging it home and clean it out I noticed the number 5 piston hole has a cone shaped crack, 3 inches long and 1 and 1/4 inches wide and pushed in towards the number three hole about a quarter of an inch (ouch).

My questions are;

Can this damage be fixed?
What kinds of problems are associated with a block setting outside that long? Overheating, lifter bore damage, ect.
I know you can sleeve a block, if I do should I sleeve all the holes?

Any and all help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
67vertman

[ks662]

I recently found a complete 392 (CE57211713) that had been sitting in a barn.Very badly rusted,no spark plugs,pistons stuck etc.Was able to remove crank without damaging it.Crank appears ok visually,has a nice ring to it when tapped with a hammer.Strange thing is it has a hole in in the number 5 cylinder exactly like yours.I found no spun bearings or bent rods or blown head gaskets.I don't know a thing about sleeves or what a hole like this would do to the integrity of the block.So any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John

[67vertman]

Does any one have a name of an engine builder in southern California?

[George]

You could boil out the block & see what it looks like. There was an article in 1 of the Mopar Mags. They were saying that some racers sleeve new blocks for increased strenth/regidity. They also broke a hole through the wall of a 318 & sleeved it to show it could be done. If the bores are in the normal overbore range sleeve the 1 cylinder, if all need it it would have to be a really cheap price on the block. I don't know if lifter bores can be sleeved if rust is excessive. There is comments on here about boring them out & using GM V-6 roller lifters if you were thinking hyd. roller cam. That would solve rust problem.

[67vertman]

I pulled the motor apart today, minimal pitting on the lifter and piston bores, and they could be honed to remove the pitting. Overall the motor is pretty clean no sludge build-up. After removing the crank two pistons are stuck and won't come out, I am soaking them in Marvel Mystery Oil, hopefully they will come out, any one have any other ideas?

My plan for this motor is to put it in a 34 Ford Pick-up that will see average duty, with a mild hop up.

Thanks for all the advise keep it coming!

[oldngood]

While treasure hunting for early Hemi parts I came across a 392 block (casting # 1673729-5) setting in the dirt behind a shop, the block is basically a short block, no heads or intake, and it appears the block was setting outside for a few years, the lifter valleys were full of dirt and the piston frozen, after dragging it home and clean it out I noticed the number 5 piston hole has a cone shaped crack, 3 inches long and 1 and 1/4 inches wide and pushed in towards the number three hole about a quarter of an inch (ouch).
My questions are;
Can this damage be fixed?
What kinds of problems are associated with a block setting outside that long? Overheating, lifter bore damage, ect.
I know you can sleeve a block, if I do should I sleeve all the holes?
Any and all help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
67vertman

old thread but worth reviving, saw it while doing some research.

yes, it can be fixed, by sleeving it- the bad hole is bored way oversize, then a steel liner pressed in, then the deck milled flat again- presto, the bore is fixed

but then a few funny things happen to the engine- the cam journals almost always go out of line, causing the cam to bind in the block as its being installed in the block- this requires honing the cam bearing holes in the block to get them straight again

and, the main bearing alignment may go out slightly, this requires align boring/honing the block again to get it straight

note: never sleeve 2 cylinders side by side, the cylinders are what holds the deck down, when you torque the heads- we put 8 sleeves in a "brand x" motor and after align honing the cam holes, it went together, but then would not hold a head gasket, kept blowing compression into the radiator

the blocks are worth saving, but only worth throwing money at if you absolutely cannot find another one instead. I'd only use a cracked block and sleeve it as a last resort. Basically the sleeve pressed in throws off all the other machining dimensions somewhat, and the entire block then needs to be re-machined

[David Hunt]

I don/t know about hemis but for rust/stuck Mopar wedge engines, I buy all I can. I tear motor apart till I get to Rust locked. Then I spray mag wheel etching acid in cylinders FROM THE TOP. I let set and drink bottle of wine. Then I wipe out cylinders with oily red rag. Fill each cylinder up with enougn DISEL and light them up! After burning off the D fuel, you can tap pistons (Stuck) out of the block, don/t forget to rotate the motor. Inspector Mopar

[oldngood]

I'll have to try that diesel fuel deal next time

I have managed to get a few heavily rusted blocks loose, with this method:

remove heads/intake

using industrial sandblaster, sandblast entire area around piston tops/edge and cylinder to remove all rust- until it's white metal

pour liquid wrench in each cylinder, let it sit filled to top overnight- do one bank at a time on an engine stand

hit with BFM and 2x4 used as a huge drift

if that doesn't work, use long brass drift

if that doesn't work, then drill out pistons from the top with large drill bit in a hand held drill, until you drill the piston full of about 8 large holes, I use a custom drill bit that is 1" diameter, but shank turned down to fit in a 3/8" chuck- with the centers drilled full of holes, the piston can then collapse inward and break free of rust

what happens when an engine seizes, the piston and cylinder have a chemical reaction whereby the piston actually "grows" bigger in the bore, the aluminum reacts with the cast iron and welds itself together- that is very hard to break loose

the worst thing you can do, is not prep it first, and keep hitting it with a hammer and steel drift, because that will break the cylinders if the rust above the piston isn't removed first. I cracked 2 cylinders in an Olds Rocket that way, by being in a hurry one time.

the ultimate easy way to get it loose is, boil the pistons out in a caustic soda bath or acid dip- the rust will be removed from the cast iron, but the pistons will dissolve to nothing because they are aluminum. Then just remove the crank/rods

sometimes you can first sneak out the crank, by removing all main caps and rod caps, and prying the crank out of the block

getting a heavily rusted seized engine apart without damaging it takes a lot of patience, it's actually an art form IMHO...

[oldngood]

I don/t know about hemis but for rust/stuck Mopar wedge engines, I buy all I can. I tear motor apart till I get to Rust locked. Then I spray mag wheel etching acid in cylinders FROM THE TOP. I let set and drink bottle of wine. Then I wipe out cylinders with oily red rag. Fill each cylinder up with enougn DISEL and light them up! After burning off the D fuel, you can tap pistons (Stuck) out of the block, don/t forget to rotate the motor. Inspector Mopar

I've already poured muriatic acid directly on top of heavily rusted pistons, they still didn't come loose

but I did manage to loosen up a nailhead 425 and Pontiac 400 by filling the crankcase and intake tract with diesel fuel mixed with drain oil, both blocks eventually came loose on a stand with big breaker bar on crank

[locomotivebreath]

getting a heavily rusted seized engine apart without damaging it takes a lot of patience, it's actually an art form IMHO...

I've done several of them here lately and called a few them a lot of things but art wasn't one of them.

[oldngood]

well they call pornography art, so I guess foul language could be art too...I always said, you have to curse the engine apart, then b-itch it back together again- that's part of the game I've had a few 3 day ordeals getting seized 1950's V-8's apart myself, they give a whole new meaning to the word "locked up"-

I'm starting to think the way to fly with a heavily rusted one is, remove top end, cam/lifters, oil pan/timing cover, dist, main caps, rod caps you can get at, pry the crank out if you "can"- then take the seized block w/pistons and rods in it to an acid dipping facility, let them soak it in their tank over a weekend and just dissolve all the pistons to nothing- get it back with 8 loose rods and pins in it, and all the rust removed- the cam bearings and soft plugs would disappear in the process too

I may try that on these (2) 331 hemis I just got yesterday