realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Discussion of the 331-354-392 HEMIs.

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oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by oldngood »

I'm seeing a lot of the early Hemis for sale, and there appears to be many more on stands running, than actually in cars running. The major hurdle with an early Hemi appears to be, there is a shortage of cars to put them in. The 50's cars they came in are generally very heavy, and some have undesireable styling, or are 4-doors. The early Hemi looks great in a street rod or rat rod, but that is a high dollar car to build these days, and to find a decent chassis is difficult. What about 1960-up chassis ?

if one wanted to put a hemi in a street car, what is the best/easiest chassis to dump one into, besides an original 50's Chrysler that came with a hemi ? what motor mount kits are available ?

any advice welcome. I don't want to end up with a running hemi on the floor in a home built engine stand that runs, with no car to put it in.
NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by NE57 »

Way back when, I put a 354 into a 64 Dodge Polara. It already had an 8 3/4 rear so it was a matter of just fabbing some mounts, engine had to sit a little high to clear the sump..a rear sump pan probably would have made it easier. Used cast iron manifolds. The clutch linkage would pop out sometimes but a torque strap fixed that. Even though it was a mild build, the only street race it lost was to my buddy's 66 Corvette, 427. The Dodge had 4.56 gears so that helped. Too much gear I would say these days, but a stoplight bandit back then.

Currently I have a 66 Dodge Dart waiting for me to build the 392. I've been told its impossible but while the measurements ARE close I'm pretty sure the motor will go in with some sheet metal work. I have to do it with the stock K Frame as I just can't pop for a tubular $etup. I'll need to find an A Body 8 3/4, minitub it, maybe relocate the springs. Trans wil be a 727, I already have the adapter. Exhaust might be iron or maybe with luck these block huggers I have might work. Its possible also that I'll try my hand at making headers, well, first I have to learn to weld. But not knowing how to do something never stopped me before.

Some people think a 1st gen hemi is out of place in a 60's car. I don't think so. While I'm not consciously cloning the Rambunctious car, it is a pretty neat combo. One reason I chose the Dart was motor vehicle regulations. In my area this car is exempt from emissions inspection. As they get newer they get stricter. I did think about a 55 Plymouth but I was afraid parts availability would be real problem. Plus all I found was either junk or fully restored(too much money either way) There is a fair amount of 60's cars still in decent condition. I lucked out on this Dart, minimal rust and the body is almost arrow straight. I'm not a young man anymore so the thought of endless hours fixing a body is a bit too much for my old bones. There are fancier, more desireable cars from that era but they cost more to obtain. Darts are relatively cheap because darts haven't been 'discovered' yet. Look on ebay and anything stylish is costly, even for crap condition. Let em play their matching numbers game, I don't care about that stuff. factory hotrods are cool but I'd rather build it my way.

Which is better..to be able to say "Yeah I bought that" or "yeah I built that".

Of course nothing says you have to go with a Mopar body. You might get some people muttering to themselves if you put your Hemi in a Mustang or Camaro. More work but how cool would it be to have Bullit looking green stang powered by a 392 Hemi? Way cool I'd say.

So maybe ask yourself what is the body that is both mechanically doable and cool enough to spend your labor on. Most mid to full size 60's Mopars will probably be good choices. I'd start there.
mart
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by mart »

oldngood wrote:I'm seeing a lot of the early Hemis for sale, and there appears to be many more on stands running, than actually in cars running. The major hurdle with an early Hemi appears to be, there is a shortage of cars to put them in. The 50's cars they came in are generally very heavy, and some have undesireable styling, or are 4-doors. The early Hemi looks great in a street rod or rat rod, but that is a high dollar car to build these days, and to find a decent chassis is difficult. What about 1960-up chassis ?

if one wanted to put a hemi in a street car, what is the best/easiest chassis to dump one into, besides an original 50's Chrysler that came with a hemi ? what motor mount kits are available ?

any advice welcome. I don't want to end up with a running hemi on the floor in a home built engine stand that runs, with no car to put it in.
------------------------------------------------------
Back around 1974-75 a buddy and I put a built 354 hemi
into his '65 Studebaker Daytona sedan. It was bit crude
because we did it on the cheap, but it fit pretty good.
and went like hell! We used some old "universal" Hurst
motor mounts, a modified rear sump oil pan and a remote
oil filter. A big hammer, a cutting torch, arc welder, duct
tape, baling wire and lots of youthful enthusiasm and the
fact that we didn't really know what the hell we were doing
helped a lot too! (I said, I it was low buck and bit a crude!
<LOL>) Another possibility for an early hemi swap is most
early 60's to mid-70 's pick-up trucks. I've seen early hemis
in early to mid 60's Chev and GMCs, in 60's and 70's
Internationals, pre-twin-I-beam front axle Fords and 60's
to mid-70's Dodge pick-ups. All of these trucks are sinpler
and have a lot more room under the hood than most
passenger cars of the same years.

mart
================================================
oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by oldngood »

thanks fellas

what's your opinions about a Hemi in a 1949-54 Chevy 2-door ?

or late 1940's Studebaker ?

I ask this because there's a few buildable bodies of such around for sale. The Stude is kind of stodgy though.
NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by NE57 »

>The Stude is kind of stodgy though.<

A hemi under the hood would destodgify that in a hurry.

Style-wise, I think the Chevy has a more natural, fuid line. But that also makes it more predictable, as in the average guy thinks, "Hey there's a 53 Chevy". The Studes are kinda quirky looking. Some have rather awkward roof lines. People might think, "Wow, what's that?"

I was surfing for Stude pics after I read your post and I did see a few with Hemis so that might give you an indication that at least in general, its a doable swap. Some of those Studes were actually pretty neat looking, in their own slightly wacky way.

But what you do to the car can make a big difference in the finished look. Take a Henry J for example...stock, they're rather geeky...hotrodded they can look pretty good.

Either way, Chevy or Stude, I would look first at the difficulty of the swap..measure not just overall engine size vs bay size..but where certain things will line up. The exhaust is a major consideration because it juts out far from the motor and if it dumps on a steering box or something else, you should figure out how to get around that before committing to the deal. Oil filter shouldn't be a sticking point, you probably want a remote filter anyway. What you chose for a tranny may have an impact too. Check stering linkage clearance vs the pan. Sure you have a choice of sumps and you could also modify your pan, but you should have decent idea of what you're facing.

So I would first see what's the problems with either swap and balance that off with availability/price of a decent body and factor in how you like the aestetics of the car. Personally, if all else was equal I'd suggest the Studebaker just for unique character.

"I've got a hemi chevy"
or
"Ive got a hemi studebaker"

which tickles your brain better?

Go with that one.
oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by oldngood »

The Chevy has nicer lines, the Stude looks more like a school bus in the back window/seat area, squared off.
George
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by George »

A hemi in almost anything makes it a cool car! A Hemi in a early 50s chevy is even better because it annoys those doofi that think the world revolves around the small block Chevy. I have seen a late 80s Dakota with a '54 331 in it.
Paul
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:41 am
Location: Tulsa Oklahoma

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by Paul »

If the concept is to utilize the Hemi on a budget, go no further than the other Plymouth & Dodge cars of that era. The ones that came with 6 bangers, like the Wayfarers -n- business coupes. They are cheap & weigh only 3000-3100 lbs.

The "High & Mighty" was originally a 1949 plymouth business coupe with a 354 Hemi. Light weight on a budget.

The reason most of those Hemis are on stands, is the amount of fabrication it takes to make one function. This is no pre-engineered bolt together task. 30's Coupes are excellent for them, if you plan on exposing the engine compartment. (again there's no easy way out) the 30's had a different (but equivalent) set of challenges I put one in each body style & fabbed everything myself. I couldn't imagine how much it would cost to pay someone else to do it. Any of the 60's & 70's cars (Or basically the cool looking "midsized" 60's 70's cars) Are going to impose a new set of problems. You are going to have to cut & fab something. Trucks are the most forgiving.

I personally considerered dropping a 354 or 392 in a Morris Minor or Austin Healy.
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oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by oldngood »

Paul- thanks for the realistic advice. I've done some crazy engine swaps in my time for customers- a 455 Buick in a 1976 Camaro, a 350 Chevy in a Toyota 4x4 truck, a 455 Pontiac in a 1986 Chevy 1-ton utility bucket truck, and a 326 Pontiac in a 1972 Chevy Nova w/4 speed.

The early hemis have these motor mounts high up on sides toward the front of he block, which creates a problem for many applications- what to bolt them to- perches have to be fabbed, or cut/taken from the donor car, and somehow fashioned onto the new car. Then there's steering box, linkage, and power steering on the driver's side.

yes, it's pretty obvious not everyone is up to the challenge of swapping in an early hemi- if you go on Youtube and do a search for "331 hemi" and "354 hemi" and "392 hemi" you find many more on stands running, than in cars. Or they run them on a dyno then list them on Ebay with the video link. Strange- we all love the engines, but there's no cars to put them in easily.

There is a kit being made to put them in the Mopar 1962-up B-body and E-body cars, it costs around $350. But I hesitate to go that route, because those cars readily accept the 440 wedge and 426 hemi- it makes no sense to hack everything to death in a 1970 Cuda just to put an early Hemi in that makes less power than a 426 or 440, when the latter just bolts right in. And a E-body or B-body in good shape is not easy to come by anymore, and not cheap.
392heminut
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:16 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by 392heminut »

oldngood wrote:
There is a kit being made to put them in the Mopar 1962-up B-body and E-body cars, it costs around $350. But I hesitate to go that route, because those cars readily accept the 440 wedge and 426 hemi- it makes no sense to hack everything to death in a 1970 Cuda just to put an early Hemi in that makes less power than a 426 or 440, when the latter just bolts right in. And a E-body or B-body in good shape is not easy to come by anymore, and not cheap.

If there is a 'kit' to put the early hemis in a B or E body car I would love to know where to find it, especially if it's only $350! The adapter for the early hemi to torqueflite trans is about that price, but it will take more than a tranny adapter to put a 392 hemi in a Cuda. As for 'hacking everything to death' to put a 392 in a Cuda, that is definately NOT true! I put one in my 70 Cuda didn't have to hack anything on the car. I now have a 5.7 hemi in it and the 392 is on a dolly in the garage, and I guarantee you can look anywhere you want on that car and you'll find no evidence of the 392 having been in there. But, then again, there are 'hacks' out there and there are fabricators out there!
Owner of the Poor Man's Hemi Cuda
oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by oldngood »

I say this with all due respect, not trying to flame anyone, but why would you put an early Hemi in a Cuda in the first place- when a 440RB/426Hemi will bolt right in and make more power ? The early Hemi in Cuda swap just makes no sense to me- unless the engine, parts, and labor was free, and I had absolutely nothing else to do with my time, and the Cuda was a complete basket case to start with. I say this for 2 reasons:

1. The early Hemi is flow and CID limited in stock form, by today's standards. The heads flow 225-235 cfm intake, with 150-175 cc intake ports, that is small to modest at best. The early Hemi best suits the pre-1959 chassis that wasn't set up for B/RB/426 already. That's why most early Hemis are in street rods, and to my knowledge no one bracket races an early Hemi naturally aspirated.

2. Cuda bodies in good shape are not exactly cheap and easy to find. The cars are now valuable to collectors, and worth a lot more with the original engine in them. I'd never put a 392 in a Cuda, because it would kill the car's resale value. We all say "we'll never sell it" but someday we get very old and can't walk anymore, and guess what, we do sell it. IMHO, it would be like putting a 409 Chevy engine in a 1970 SS454 Chevelle or '69 SS Camaro. Sure the engine would look and sound neat, but the resale value of the car is destroyed- and the 454 is a far superior engine that makes a ton more power.

To answer your question, the guy selling the kit is MOPAR CHARLIE from Florida, and he quoted a $326 price- don't know if that includes the trans plate.

Looking at this procedure to put the early Hemi in a Cuda, this is not a walk in the park swap. I know someone locally who put a 392 in a Dart and he said the swap was hell to do, and he's 74 years old and has done many swaps in his lifetime.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/tech/pages/hemidart.html

INSTRUCTIONS FOR INSTALLING EARLY HEMI INTO
A BODY MOPAR CARS 1967 - 1975

1. ONE ARE WHERE THERE IS A SLIGHT PROBLEM IS THE MASTER BRAKE CYLINDER, FOR THIS I HAVE FABRICATED AN ADAPTER WHICH MOVES THE MASTER CYLINDER ( MANUAL DISC or DRUM ) OUT OF THE WAY OF THE DRIVERS SIDE VALVE COVERS, I KNOW MANICINI SELLS ONE THEY SAY WILL DO THE TRICK, BUT THEIR ADAPTER PUTS THE MASTER CYLINDER OVER THE #7 SPARK PLUG, MINE WILL GET THE MASTER CYLINDER TOTALLY OUT OF THE WAY. I SELL THIS KIT FOR $180.00 COMPLETE ( LESS MASTER CYLINDER )

2. I USED EARLY HEMI INDUSTRIAL MOTOR MOUNTS, THEY ARE STEEL AND RUBBER, I HAD TO CUT THE OLD PURTCHES OFF THE K-MEMBER AND WELD 2 PIECES OF 1/4" STEEL PLATES, AND DRILL AND TAP THE HOLES IN THESE PLATES.

3. I USED THE ORIGINAL 1957 IMPERIAL RADIATOR, THE ONLY THING I DID IS RECORE THIS TO 4 ROWS. COST ABOUT $175.00

4. I DID INSTALL A 1985 RAMPAGE RACK & PINION, BUT THIS CAUSES A BUMP STEER PROBLEM, I ALSO USED 3 JOINT FROM BORGERSON, AND A 3/4 DOUBLE-D SHAFT.

5. I CHANGED THE 5/16" FUEL LINE TO 1/2" ALUMINUM, AND ADDED A CARTER ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP, MOUNTED BY THE RIGHT RREAR TIRE, ALSO I ADDED A RACING CANISTER FUEL FILTER, WITH CHANGEABLE ELEMENT.

6. I HAVE ADDED A A-BODY 8.75 REAR w/ A 355 POSI THIRD MEMBER,

7. I ADDED 383 A-BODY TORSION BARS ( not really needed) SINCE THE EXTRA WEIGHT WILL BE DISTRIBUED MORE EVENLY.

8. I HAVE CONVERTED MY DART w/ 1973 DODGE DART FRONT MANUAL DISC BRAKES, A VERY EASY CONVERSION, IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THIS INFORMATION, PLEASE E-MAIL ME, AND I WOULD BE HAPPY GIVING YOU SOME FREE INFORMATION.

9. I AM RUNNING A CHEVY TURBO 350 TRANSMISSION, BECAUSE OF THE RACK & PONIOR STEERING, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THE STEERING SHAFT & THE STARTER, SO I HAVE MOVED THE STARTER OVER TO THE PASSENGER IDE OF THE HEMI, ON CHEVY THE STARTER BOLTS TO THE ALUMINUM ADAPTER, UNLIKE THE SMALL BLOCK 727, THE STARTER MUST BOLT TO THE TRANSMISSION, I JUST HAD THE ADAPTER ( MUST HAVE ) FABRICTED WITH THE STARTER MOUNTING TURN AROUND. IF YOU NEED INSTRUCTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME.

10, I ALSO ARE USING MOSER 4.5 BOLT PATTERN AXLES, IF YOU CONVERT TO FRONT DISC BRAKES, THEY WILL BE 4.5 BOLT PATTERN, NOW YOU CAN HAVE YOUR AXLES REDRILLED FOR THE 4.5 BOLT PATTERN, BUT IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE AND MORE SAFETLY TO GET NEW AXLES, COST $295.00 includes GREEN BEARINGS.

11 I AM RUNNING A STOCK A-BODY AUTOMATIC SHAFTER & CONSOLE, I MATED THE LINKAGE TO THE CHEVY TRANSMISSION.

12. I'M RUNNING A SPIN-ON OIL FILTER, ADAPTER IS AVAILABLE FROM DALE WILCH, http://www.dalewilch.com

13. I AM USING A STOCK MOPAR ALTERNATOR, MOUNTING IS STRAIGHT FOWARD.

14. THE OIL PAN MUST BE A CENTER SUMP PAN, FOR CLEARANCE.
oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by oldngood »

here is some of the procedure for early Hemi to "B" and "E" body. It's self explanatory- question:

why not just bolt in a 440 or 426 ? There's no incentive to go through all this, IMHO. But you can make the judgement call for yourself.



http://www.moparts.org/Tech/tech/pages/earlyhemi.html

LL 1962-1975 B-BODIES AND 1970-1974 E-BODY CAR, have the exact engine bay dimentions.

1. MOTOR MOUNTS: Stock 318 Motor Mounts were used, with only a slight modification, ( I sell these parts)

2. K-member used was a stock small block (273- 318- 340- 360 ) no modifications needed. Use model years 1971 and down, because the 1972 and up, uses the " Spool Mounts" The K-Member will fit all A-Body and B-Body cars 1972 + up

3. Center Sump Oil Pan needed , 354 HEMI no clearance problems. The Drag link, with not interfere with the Oil Pan.

4. Power steering is out, you must use a Manual Steering box, any Mopar box will work, they are all the same, and the Steering Column that is of the same car, ( Cuda, Challenger, Road Runner, Polara, Coronet, GTX, Super B,Charger, Belvedere, the only part needed for this is a 1973-1976 Dodge Dart Pitman Arm, use Part # 18759, this is a TRW Number, and is available, at any Auto Parts Supplier, the part is made by FEDERAL MOGUL

5. You can retain your Power Steering Column, by purchasing the "ONE-PIECE COLUMN ADAPTER from Firm Feel, Inc. 1-800-347-6426 or visit their web-site www.pcez.com/~firmfeel The price is $99.95 + shipping, and with this adapter, it just attaches to the steering shaft. I used this part, on all my Power Steering Column Applications.

6. Power Brakes will not work, because of the lack of room for the Power Brake Booster, if your car has Power Brakes, then you must use a Manual Brake Master Cylinder, the pedal push rod will have to modified, I also sell a kit for this.


6. Exhaust Manifolds, I use Stock HEMI manifolds, If Headers are to be used, they have to be Custom Made, the Sanderson Block Hugger Headers, are a problem, on the Drivers Side, the number 1 and 2 Tubes will interfear with the steering Box, and K-Frame. not to mention the Starter Motor.

7. Slight Clearance Problems, on the 70 Barracuda, I have just completed, the Passenger Side of the Inner Fender , the Clearance is almost zero, the Exhaust Manifold just about touches the sheet metal, this is not a problem. PLEASE DO NOT DING IN THE LITTLE TANGS,( inner fenderwell ) where the cam bolts ( adjusters) are on the Upper Control Arm, thus, there be no more adjustment.

8. Automatic Transmission, the only thing needed is a small block 904 and 727 Torqueflite Adapter, and the Drive Shaft will have to be shortened 2", the Transmission Cross-Member will have to be slightly modified, back 1 inch.

9. Front Suspension, there is No Modifications At All, I used 318 Stock Torsion bars, there is no problem with the extra weight. The HEMI weighs 690 pounds, the exact weight as a Big Block. The Mopar Small Block weighs 525 pounds

10. Radiator, when using a small block Radiator, just have the Inlet or Outlet, moved to the correct side. 3 or 4 core Radiator is needed, for max cooling

NOTE: you must use the Fan Blade on the Water Pump, the use of ELECTRIC FANS either before or after the RADIATOR, will not pass enough air to cool the Radiator, Engine and Transmission. Due to the fact, that the Electric Fans are single speed, unlike the engine fan, when your RPMs increase, so does the Water Pump and Fan Blade speed up, giving maxium cooling.

11. Transmission Kick-Down, I used the Cable Kick-down available from BOUCHILLON PERFORMANCE 1-800-744-6559 cost. $99.95 + shipping, this part is a must. visit their web-site www.bouchillonperformance.com

12. I would strongly suggest, the use of a Automatic Transmission Cooler, and PLEASE don't forget to connect this inline, with the Radiator Transmission cooler, located at the bottom of the radiator, and PLEASE purchase a quality Transmission cooler, price somewhere at $40.00 and get the biggest one, that will fit your car. Auto Zone and Discount Auto Parts, if you have one, in your area, sells a great cooler for $29.00 made by haydon

13 If the stock shifter is to be used, there might be some modifications needed.

14 I strongly recommend using Fram Fuel Filter Part # FRM-HPG1 from Summit Racing price $39.95, this part has saved my HEMI from dirt in the Fuel.

15. This is a good time, to update your present brake system, using front Disc Brakes.

16. A manual transmission, can be used for this application, Please check the Crankshaft, making sure, it is drilled for the Pilot bushing, and Transmission shaft. There are adapters available.
_______________________________________________________________________
MODERN ENGINE MODIFICATIONS FOR EARLY HEMIS:

1 OIL PUMP, STOCK 318, w/ adapter and New Custom Oil Pump Shaft. inquire

2. DISTRIBUTOR small block Electronic Ignition Mopar Performance.

3. ALTERNATOR, stock Mopar, no mods needed, inquire

4. CARB(s) CARTER AFB(s) purchase New from JEGS $200.00 ea + shipping

5. PCV VALVE, this removes the "smog tube", remove tube, purchase a Pontiac PVC Valve Grommet, this fits the existing hole in Valley Tray, now, you will have to add two Breathers, one on each side of the Valve Cover, see photo, www.earlyhemi.com order Edelbrock Part # EDL-4201 ( 2 needed ) $17.95 ea inquire.

6. I use the Spin On Oil Filter Adapter, or if you perfer, you may use a Remote Oil Filter Assembly. The Stock Fram PH43 filter, is the only OIL FILTER I WILL USE, and there is plenty of room to remove the filter, upon the 3,000 mile oil changes. I sell these adapters, inquire
George
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by George »

You might want to look up a number of articles on Fram's quality, or lack there of. I use Wix instead. There are a number of filter adaptors available, 3 types from Hot Heads alone. A 904 will cause problems mounting the starter, block grinding is nessesary, 727 much better choice starter wise & strenth wise.
392heminut
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:16 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by 392heminut »

oldngood wrote:I say this with all due respect, not trying to flame anyone, but why would you put an early Hemi in a Cuda in the first place- when a 440RB/426Hemi will bolt right in and make more power ? The early Hemi in Cuda swap just makes no sense to me- unless the engine, parts, and labor was free, and I had absolutely nothing else to do with my time, and the Cuda was a complete basket case to start with.
I had the 392, didn't have $12,000 for a 426 hemi and didn't want a 'bellybutton' 440! I wasn't after horsepower, I was after the wow factor when I opened the hood, and apparently (according to your response) I didn't have anything better to do with my time. The Cuda wasn't exactly a basket case when I got it, but the engine and tranny were long gone. I guess some of us aren't happy to settle for something that every other Mopar nut has sitting in the garage, and are willing to put the effort into our cars to have something different from everyone else.

oldngood wrote:2. Cuda bodies in good shape are not exactly cheap and easy to find. The cars are now valuable to collectors, and worth a lot more with the original engine in them. I'd never put a 392 in a Cuda, because it would kill the car's resale value. We all say "we'll never sell it" but someday we get very old and can't walk anymore, and guess what, we do sell it. IMHO, it would be like putting a 409 Chevy engine in a 1970 SS454 Chevelle or '69 SS Camaro. Sure the engine would look and sound neat, but the resale value of the car is destroyed- and the 454 is a far superior engine that makes a ton more power.
I would never sell this car to a collector to sit in some collection until it could be resold for a profit or to just be looked at. As far as getting old and selling stuff, you can speak for yourself, but don't try to categorize all of us to fit within your view of the hobby! This car won't be sold and is going to my 17 year old son, his name is already on the title with mine. As for the resale value of the car being destroyed, I don't see how. As I previously stated, the car was not 'hacked' in any way and has no evidence now that the 392 was in it. No harm, no foul! I don't do 'hack' jobs and take pride in my work. The 392 install was a very clean job, as is the 5.7 hemi that is in the car now. I did actually bracket race the car with the 392 in it and had a lot of fun making over 100 passes down the track with that engine! I've also taken the car on roadtrips in the middle of summer here in the desert with no problems and knocked down 16-17 MPG on the interstate driving 75 MPH. That's what my Cuda is all about, having fun with it and enjoying the car. I guess you could say I'm at the other end of the spectrum from the numbers matching, total resto crowd, but I'll guarantee I have more fun with my car.
oldngood wrote:To answer your question, the guy selling the kit is MOPAR CHARLIE from Florida, and he quoted a $326 price- don't know if that includes the trans plate.
I talked to Charlie back 9 years ago when I started my swap. Charlie has some good info on the swaps, but also has some misleading info, and isn't the only one with info on how to do it posted on this site. If you'll look a little more Scott also has a pdf file posted here that I did on the swap too. The 'kit' that Charlie sells is nowhere close to being complete, all it consists of is a modified tranny mount and a pair of modified LA motormount brackets, parts that just about any car nut could fabricate in his own garage with minimal effort.
oldngood wrote:Looking at this procedure to put the early Hemi in a Cuda, this is not a walk in the park swap.
I never said it was a walk in the park, but if you want something besides a bellybutton car you have to be willing to put some effort into it! To me, half the fun is building something somewhat unique and doing it in a clean and neat manner, i.e. not doing a 'hack' job.
oldngood wrote:I know someone locally who put a 392 in a Dart and he said the swap was hell to do, and he's 74 years old and has done many swaps in his lifetime.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. The Dart is an A body with very different engine compartment dimensions than an E body Cuda or B body Charger or Roadrunner. You don't say what year of Dart your friend did the swap on, and the early 60's A bodies had an even smaller engine bay than the later years. There is a big difference in effort required to put an early hemi in an A body compared to an E or B body car, and an A body swap would definitely require mods that an E or B body swap wouldn't.


I'm not trying to start a flame war here either, but your remarks make you appear to look down your nose at someone who would build something that doesn't fit into your idea of what should be done with a 'collector' status car. There are a lot of different aspects to this hobby and different ways to do things. You mentioned putting an early hemi in a 49-54 Chevy. There are Chevy folks out there who would feel that you "killed the resale value" of that car by putting a Mopar engine in it! Sound familiar? I guess you don't feel that a 49-54 Chevy 2 door has the collector status that a 70 Cuda has, but there are people in the hobby who would disagree. You asked for ideas on what to do with these motors and I posted what I did with mine. You then berated my efforts because it didn't fit in with your idea of what should be done with a "collector" status car. It really doesn't bother me that you don't approve of my swap, my son and I have gotten a lot of pleasure from it and that's all that matters to us in the grand scheme of things, but if you keep posting responses like you did to me you'll find less and less people responding to your posts. There are a lot of folks on here with an amazing amount of experience in the car hobby that are willing to share that information with all of us. When you ask for information or ideas take what you can use and either let the rest go or thank the person offering the info with a simple 'not my cup of tea'. Don't downgrade other peoples' efforts because it's not something you would do yourself!

BTW, I think it's a cool idea putting an early hemi in a 49-54 Chevy, and have been looking at a 49 Chevy 2 door down the street from me with the same idea for my 392.
Owner of the Poor Man's Hemi Cuda
johnny5
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: St Charles, MO

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by johnny5 »

They fit pretty easily into any 1935-1950 Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler or Desoto car or truck. They're still cheap and easy to find. Motor mounts are a cinch. Just flip around a set of LA mounts and massage them a little and you're in business. Any engine swap is going to have quirks but if you know what you're doing 'it'll all smooth itself out in the end'. That's what hot rodding is all about.
Paul
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:41 am
Location: Tulsa Oklahoma

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by Paul »

Lets see... motor mounts on my 50 Dodge w/a 354 Hemi. I used the stock motor mounts w/ the rectangular rubber pads they sit "flat" at 90 deg from the block, so all I needed was something to sit them on. I used a piece of reqtangular metal stock & cut it off just under 4" then cut it at 45 degree angles. On the 30's car I just did, I wanted a different look, so I used the (not so common original) round rubber mounts that sit at angles. I had a hydralic jack that killed over, so I pulled off the mounts that hold the wheels. I incorporated them into my C-4 Corvette front suspension. I took the stock motor mounts that held the 350 Chevy, removed them, shifted them over & cut one up to match the dimensions of the other. I then grafted the hydralic jack "wheel" mounts on them. The crossmember that holds the rear tranny mount is a bit more of a challenge. You'll run into your original steering column. You'll most likely be forced to run a rack n pinion,so you either have to cut & modify your column or buy a flaming river (etc) You can get the rack n pinion mounts from fat man fabrication. I bought them on my 1st Hemi install & made them on my 2nd. There's nothing to them. You will most likely have to cut & modify some of your firewall, which may include modifying brackets on the other side of it. You will also most likely have to cut and modify a small portion of your tranny tunnel, in order to get the angles to align properly. Don't be surpised if you end up running electric accessories to save room in the front. Lets see, I made my own linkage,shifter mount,modified the tranny adapter to get the correct fit,built my own headers (this round) used block huggers the 1st round (cept modified them to kick out a bit away from the block). Made my own exhaust out of mandrel bent tubing. Had a adapter made to run a 318 electronic distributer.Made my own wiring harness. I'm sure there's something I missed. The custom driveshaft,the homemeade steering linkage. lets see ..I had to make my own brackets to mount my alternator,closer to the block. ..... .. not for lazy people. Hacks should not attempt this task. I'm tired so I'll proof read this when I'm sober
Last edited by Paul on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
George
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by George »

I've been using a Chassis Engineering upper, a doughnut rubber & made my own lowers out of 2X4 steel.
NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by NE57 »

If you ask why go thru the trouble, it becomes a rhetorical question. Why make anything when its easier to just go out and buy its commercially available equivalent?
Wanna go fast, buy a fast car. Easy.

If you're a hands on type of guy, its because it just doesn't suit you. You enjoy turning wrenches and welding. You enjoy the planning and dreaming. Ypu enjoy creating. I'l bet you even enjoy the frustration. But its you and this is what you like to do.

I can only speak for myself on this, but the process is the whole thing for me. The learning(and this is a great site to learn), the internal mental arguments, chasing down parts, etc.
I'm sure when I get the project finished, I'll enjoy driving the car. But I'm already day dreaming about the next hemi. Actually two. How about side by side injected Desotos in an open engine roadster? Yeah I know that's light years beyond my capabilities but I can dream can't I? But if you're going for WOW, how much WOWer can you get?

Sorry to get all philosophical here.
392heminut
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:16 pm

Re: realistic hemi question-what to put it in ?

Post by 392heminut »

Very well stated! :)
Owner of the Poor Man's Hemi Cuda
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