just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Discussion of the 331-354-392 HEMIs.

Moderators: TrWaters, 392heminut, scottm

Post Reply
oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:26 pm

I went out today, and bought (2) more 331 hemis at a junkyard... :roll: :lol: :D

I'm combing a local junkyard looking to see what's left after he crushed over 2000 cars in the past 3 years, the entire heart of the junkyard is gone and devoid of any old stuff, with all new cars in their place- really sad actually- so I walked around the edges of the yard and into the woods, there were still cars here and there that could not be seen until I was right on top of them, hidden by the brush and trees- some had trees growing out of them, that's how long they've been there

I found (2) early 331 Chrysler Hemis with the extended bell, both were missing valve covers, rockers, head bolts, and carbs- but otherwise complete and still in the cars. The yard owner said $200 each and he pulls them out, so I gave him the ok and deposit.

I felt sorry for the darn things. Just can't see a hemi, even a small valve/small port/extended bell, going to the crusher- it was a pity purchase- and I figure the heads/crank/rods/oil pan have to be worth $200 per set at least. Someone over on the HAMB said the extended bell is the easiest to adapt to a stick shift manual trans- and the lower bell covers go for $75-$100 each on Ebay from time to time.

maybe I'll send one out and get the extension cut off, and adapter welded on- and cut down a 392 crank and drop it in, and build a short rod 392

I also found a P27 code Plymouth poly, a few Ford flatheads complete in cars, and a pile of Buick nailheads, early Caddys, and a few early Olds Rockets- sure wish I got there before he crushed though

so here I go again.... :lol:

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by NE57 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:15 am

>maybe I'll send one out and get the extension cut off, and adapter welded on- and cut down a 392 crank and drop it in, and build a short rod 392<

I see Wilcap has several adapters listed for the extended bellhousing blocks. I'm no expert but they look bolt on.

George
Posts: 646
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by George » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:25 am

You won't have a short rod 392, they can't be bored safely beyond 354 standard bore size & that is w/o any core shift. Scooter @ the HAMB bought a 331 that had been bored to 392 bore size + 030 & every cyl. was ruined. @ 392 you MIGHT use it for a filled block drag motor, but that is beyond reason, really.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:24 pm

we'll find out for sure- a few years ago, I invested in a new sonic tester- so bore thickness would be checked first, carefully

the 331 is 3.8125" bore, the 392 is 4.0" bore, it would need to be bored .188" over to make it a 392

that's .094" material removed all around the bore, each side

if a 331 sonic tests at least .220"-.225" thickness, it can be bored to a 392, that would leave the minimum acceptable .125"- .130" bore wall thickness needed for naturally aspirated use, which is plenty for a pump gas street engine.

Typically the major thrust walls have plenty of meat, it's the sides front to back, that are thin in some areas.

if it can only go to a stock 354 bore size, it would end up approx. 380 CID (354 bore x 392 stroke) still not too shabby, a mighty crap better than only 331 CID- the one thing I don't like about the 331 is, there's this big heavy 700 lb. engine, that can be spanked pretty badly by a 327/375HP solid cam Chevy small block, that weighs 150 lbs. less.

in scooter's case, someone went beyond stock 392 bore size, which would be foolish without first sonic testing- I'll get some 331 sonic numbers and post them in the upcoming weeks

TrWaters
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Vermont
Contact:

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by TrWaters » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:11 am

An extended bell is definitely not easier (or less expensive) to adapt a standard shift to.
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:01 pm

this fella's method was just plate off the existing extended bell, and drill for trans mounting

what he did inside the bell to space it back, I do not know- his method did make sense though

it would take one heckuva spacer setup to take that distance up- he was posting on one of the hemi threads or sites on the net, it may have even been on this site

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:21 am

like the little girl says in the spooky movie...

"they're heeeeere ...."

Image
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by NE57 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:04 pm

Only we hemi nerds would understand how a couple of rusted ugly hulks could be something to get excited about, ya know?

I remember decades ago trying to hunt down Desoto hemi parts. Good luck! Then we found a 56 Desoto, buried in a municipal junkyard. Spent a few hours with a come-a-long til we pulled away some other cars in the way, flipped that 56 over and raided the crankcase.
By the time the cops came to chase us away we already had the crank and rods packed away in the trunk. "What 'No Trespassing' sign, Officer"?

Mission accomplished.

Here's hoping you get all the enjoyment you want out of those hemis!

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:43 pm

that's a good story :lol: did anyone ever go back and get the heads, etc. ??

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by NE57 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:05 pm

oldngood wrote:that's a good story :lol: did anyone ever go back and get the heads, etc. ??

Well, we left them on the ground so anybody could have grabbed them, we didn't need them at the time.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:50 pm

are they still there ? go back and get them, heck ask if you cany just buy what's left at this point- the impound yards have old cars in them from time to time, they part them out, but can't sell them whole with title

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by NE57 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:58 am

Well that was back in 1972, the junkyard is now a condominium complex.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:17 am

and knowing these a-hole developers, they probably covered the heads with fill and topsoil- maybe some archeologist will dig the heads up 7000 years from now....

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:42 pm

NE57 wrote:Only we hemi nerds would understand how a couple of rusted ugly hulks could be something to get excited about, ya know?

Here's hoping you get all the enjoyment you want out of those hemis!

spent the last 2 days getting the hemis apart, it was a workout but not as bad as some other engines I've broken loose that sat for 40 years. The 1952 engine had a dropped exhaust valve that went through a piston, gaping hole in the piston, and valve head was in the oil pan- but block, rods, crank were undamaged. Both rod bearing sets on that crankpin were burned and spun, and one other pairs of rod bearings was overheated- the cylinder head chamber for that hole had some nicks in it but is ok- I'm amazed at how strong these engines were- any other engine would have blew a hole in the cylinder wall or head chamber. Only a few pistons came out easily, the 52 engine had a lot of cylinder wall rust in some holes, and that required breaking pistons to get them out. but I found it's quite easy to smash the center out of these OEM pistons with a drift and hammer, then break the edge and they collapse and come out. got one good piston that was undamaged. the bearings were really bad with a lot of dirt in them and signs of running hot, but I put the rear mains back in, measured the clearance, and measured the crank and it was still in spec. This crank could just be polished but should really be turned, it's got some heavy scratches on it.

the 1951 engine was next, that one had 2 intake valve heads rotted off and laying on top of pistons, and it also had even
more rust in the bores. I managed to drive out all pistons again by breaking them, and again got only 1 good piston undamaged. the bearings in the 1951 engine were much better and actually could be reused- the crank doesn't even need to be cut on the 1951 engine

both cams can be reused, the 1951 cam is not even worn, the 1952 cam has slight wear but useable-all 16 rods are useable-
it's a relief that I got all 16 pistons out without cracking a cylinder. These engines are tough. The hardware is high quality, and the bores are very thick. even the soft plugs were still good but I removed them to get rust out of water jackets

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by NE57 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:12 am

Resurrecting the dead!

Hey, twin Frankensteins. Now all you need is a stark and dormy night.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:08 am

and a set of rockers, valve covers, and head bolts (no pun intended) :D

DblAdigger
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by DblAdigger » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:43 pm

I've got a few sets of stock head bolts, got any 300 exhaust rockers (that will pass magnaflux examination) to trade?
Chuck Stevens
Some people can break a cannon ball, in a sand box, with their bare hands.

DblAdigger
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by DblAdigger » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:04 pm

To clarify, I need two (2) 300 exhaust rockers and one (1) 300 intake rocker.
Chuck Stevens
Some people can break a cannon ball, in a sand box, with their bare hands.

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:26 am

DblAdigger wrote:To clarify, I need two (2) 300 exhaust rockers and one (1) 300 intake rocker.

by "300" I take it you need the adjustable type ? those I don't have, actually I don't have any rockers at all

392heminut
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:16 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by 392heminut » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:32 am

I have some spare non-adjustable rockers if that's what you need.
Owner of the Poor Man's Hemi Cuda

oldngood
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: just when I swore I'd never buy another 331

Post by oldngood » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:03 pm

392heminut wrote:I have some spare non-adjustable rockers if that's what you need.

those would do, email me at hsf18@epix.net

Post Reply