354 Hemi build

Discussion of the 331-354-392 HEMIs.

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Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:08 pm

I have kinda started the build. Did some cleaning. Going to load it in the truck tomorrow to head to the machine shop.

I can't get it to turn over, this sucks. The lifters are stuck too. Here are some pictures.

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The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

George
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby George » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:50 am

Depending on what you have for equipment...On 1 of mine was stuck also, but I lucked out for a while. Removed the main & rod caps. Lifted the crank out. Pistons actually came out easily as did the lifters. Cam is flat stuck on mine. Guess I'll have to have them hot tank the block to melt the bearings out :(

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:59 am

Headed to the shop now. Will report back in a little while.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:15 pm

The shop looked it over while it was in the bed of the truck. Said it looked good just visually. Said it will need bored and of course new valve and springs and all that stuff.

Looks like I need to finish the tear down and get it to them.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:58 pm

Took the crank, piston, rods, and cam out and did some cleaning. Here some pictures.

What kinda of tool do I need to take the valves out?

Here I am taking the crank and pistons out...
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Here is what it looked like afterwords. Looks like I am going to be in good shape.
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Here is how the cylinders looked after some cleaning. Looks pretty good.
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Here is a picture of the top end half way cleaned up and a one done. I will clean the bottom tomorrow. Maybe the heads too. That should be clean enough for the hot tank.
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The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

George
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby George » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:27 am

Tool called a valve compressor.

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:21 am

George wrote:Tool called a valve compressor.


Thanks George.
Does auto parts stores rent them? I will call some local ones today.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby NE57 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:30 am

Just try to get a good compressor. I made the mistake of buying a Craftsman. POS. The jaws that grab the retainer bent sideways and there's not enough throw to the handle.


http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G5

Here's what I bought. Its billed as a KD tool but the one I got says Craftsman and it was only like $25 or so. Hmmm something fishy.

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:45 pm

How do I get the valve guides out? Are they pressed in?

Thanks for the info NE57.

I bought this one. It worked just had to work a little harder.

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Here are the heads after pulling the valves. Only had one valve that didn't want to leaves it home. Had to use the lead hammer on that one. I also have a new friend....PB Blaster!!!!

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The piles of parts is getting larger. Crank here too.

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Here is another block picture.

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Time for more cleaning. Wish the wife was not working third shift. She's sleeping or I would just use the power washer.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby NE57 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:24 pm

Yeah the guides are pressed so your shop will have to do that. You have a choice of iron or bronze guides. I went with my shop's recommendation of iron as its longer lasting and since its a street machine longevity trumps any minor gains from bronze. They way he explained it was the reason to go to bronze is if you have extreme temperature situation, like racing. Bronze doesn't gall so easy. So while not galling would normally be a plus, the chance of needing that on the street is negligible. He thought that 30,000 miles on the bronze and they'd need checking. Iron will go 100,000, he said.

Did you ever post what kind of build you want to do? Stock, performance, crazy? What kind of car you want to put it in?

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:39 pm

NE57 wrote:Yeah the guides are pressed so your shop will have to do that. You have a choice of iron or bronze guides. I went with my shop's recommendation of iron as its longer lasting and since its a street machine longevity trumps any minor gains from bronze. They way he explained it was the reason to go to bronze is if you have extreme temperature situation, like racing. Bronze doesn't gall so easy. So while not galling would normally be a plus, the chance of needing that on the street is negligible. He thought that 30,000 miles on the bronze and they'd need checking. Iron will go 100,000, he said.

Did you ever post what kind of build you want to do? Stock, performance, crazy? What kind of car you want to put it in?


Thank you for more info. Steel it is.

IT will be a street engine. I am thinking of calling Hot Heads to see what they recommend for my build. Stock this engine had 280 hp. I guess that would be good, but a little more would not hurt. I am thinking 350 hp. This will make the tq numbers higher. Not sure if a 700r4 tranny will handle it. I have heard they are good to 450tq. Over drive would be nice for the longer trips.

I also need to decide it I should run the stock water pump and 4 barrel intake. Or if I should get a stock "wet" intake for it.

I bought 5 hemis and this is the one I want. I need to make sure this is a good block, crank and heads before I can sell the others. The next trip to the shop should finish up that decision. On the plus side, all the bearings looked great!!!!

This will make you laugh.....I have no car to put it in!!! :P I want a 28 to 32 5 window coupe to make a SAFE rat rod. A tudor would work too. Low and bagged. All I know is it's GOT to have a hemi!!!!!!
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby NE57 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:24 pm

>This will make you laugh.....I have no car to put it in!!!

I'm not laughing, I did the same thing! I got the 392 and started on that. I looked around for a suitable body but anything that I liked and knew the motor would fit easy...was just too much money. I was hoping for a 63-66 full size Dodge or Plymouth but found a cherry 66 Dodge Dart that I traded my bike for. Eh, I'm too old for hemorroids anymore anyway. People don't believe it will fit and its a shoe horn job for sure but I'm game for it.

In my youth I had a 64 Polara with a 354 w/ 4.56 and 4spd. Motor was built mostly stock except for a 300 degree cam(that's what they called it) 11:1 cast pistons and weiand 2x4. That car was badass, this one should be even badder. I think your 350hp is easy to reach without spending tons of extra money over the basic rebuild. cam, manifold, headers...what's that, like $6-800 extra.

Hey good luck and good parts scrounging.

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:35 pm

Glad to see that I am not the only person that is backwards.

Block, crank, rocker arms, heads, pistons, and mains are headed for the shop on Monday. Wish them luck!!!! :wink:
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

George
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby George » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:01 pm

I take it this is a 354 truck engine. If it has the fat sodium filled valve stems you should buy new car valves & the valve guides for them. Does the heads have the square under carb crossover, it should. If so you can look for the 1954 car intake, it's a wet 4 bl. Or you have to drill between the 1st & 2nd runners & install fittings & run a remote thermostat housing. You have the small timing cover with bolts @ 11 & 1 O'clock or the big one with a bolt @ 12 O'clock?

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:26 pm

George wrote:I take it this is a 354 truck engine. If it has the fat sodium filled valve stems you should buy new car valves & the valve guides for them. Does the heads have the square under carb crossover, it should. If so you can look for the 1954 car intake, it's a wet 4 bl. Or you have to drill between the 1st & 2nd runners & install fittings & run a remote thermostat housing. You have the small timing cover with bolts @ 11 & 1 O'clock or the big one with a bolt @ 12 O'clock?


It's a car engine. NE56. I have the car heads and car intake. Yes on the square. Heads have the water port on the front and back.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

George
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby George » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:46 pm

Hemi8me wrote:
George wrote:I take it this is a 354 truck engine. If it has the fat sodium filled valve stems you should buy new car valves & the valve guides for them. Does the heads have the square under carb crossover, it should. If so you can look for the 1954 car intake, it's a wet 4 bl. Or you have to drill between the 1st & 2nd runners & install fittings & run a remote thermostat housing. You have the small timing cover with bolts @ 11 & 1 O'clock or the big one with a bolt @ 12 O'clock?


It's a car engine. NE56. I have the car heads and car intake. Yes on the square. Heads have the water port on the front and back.

Y were you talking about getting a wet intake? Oh...I think I figured it out...The Long BB Chevy water pump will fit over your OEM timing cover. Then just bolt on a 392 water crossover! Or run the stock W/P, or a 392 W/P & crossover, whatever floats your boat!

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:38 am

The intake with the casting number 1534501 is a "wet" intake. It has coolant flowing through it. My 1637625 only has the heat raisers. Correct my if I am wrong. I have heard the the "wet" intake is better, but I really have no clue.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

George
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby George » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:20 pm

Hemi8me wrote:The intake with the casting number 1534501 is a "wet" intake. It has coolant flowing through it. My 1637625 only has the heat raisers. Correct my if I am wrong. I have heard the the "wet" intake is better, but I really have no clue.

51-4 intakes are wet intakes with solid front heads, the one obove 1534501is the only wet 4 bl. When the Chr Hemi was redesigned, 55 -58, they had the open front heads & a dry intake. Easy to say they though it an improvement over the wet style. Truck Hemis stayed with the wet intake & added sodium filled valves for extra cooling of the valves, even though they reduced port flow. Evidently they liked the wet style for severe duty. DeSoto's entire line used wet intakes & Dodge's entire line used dry. A diffrence in opinion between the 3 brands! I'd probably go with the dry.

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:59 pm

Thanks again George. You are a Hemi God.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:01 pm

All ready to go to the machine tomorrow morning.
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Here is the factory w/p, intake and TC cover.
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The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

NE57
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby NE57 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:17 pm

There's something neat about rusted old hulks about to be reincarnated.

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:47 pm

NE57 wrote:There's something neat about rusted old hulks about to be reincarnated.


You bet. Rick Gable, the owner of Gable's Engine and Machine shop was smiling when I showed up this morning.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

George
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby George » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Hemi8me wrote:
You bet. Rick Gable, the owner of Gable's Engine and Machine shop was smiling when I showed up this morning.

With visions of $$$$$ in his head! :D

Hemi8me
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby Hemi8me » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:30 pm

The machine called today. Good news!!!!! Everything is in good shape. I have to meet with him tomorrow to discuss the machining. He said all the machining should cost about $1200. Does that sound fair? I will find out what all he wants to do tomorrow.
The hemi is all I have for my Rat Rod.....1956 354 HEMI

dan miller
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:05 am

Re: 354 Hemi build

Postby dan miller » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:36 am

Hello Hemi8

Are you going to install 4 bolt mains? Expensive, but worth it, as you will end up with a solid foundation, and can just keeping bolting on stuff for more power as time/money/wife allows. If not 4 bolt mains, then good studs with a Waters girdle will help. We saw the main caps moving around at around 500 hp with stock mains and good studs. A Waters girdle allows for about another 100 hp (and some peace of mind). We have one on both our EMC and JrFuel engines.

Another thing we do is have the freeze plugs machined for a "normal" plug. I believe we use SBC plugs, but can't remember for sure. Will check and advise if you wish.

Bob Walker (Hot Heads) is a primo source for parts and info. He offers a Racer Brown 254 hydraulic cam that we just love. It sounds so wicked that upon first startup, we thought that we had made a horrible mistake - WAY too much camshaft - in our 2010 EMC engine. Turns out that it makes very good power from 3000 up, and really starts making serious power at around 4000. In our 387 cid EMC engine, it made (as memory serves) 654 hp @ 6500 (through mufflers, 91 octane - at the corner market fuel, tuned for midrange).

Danny


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