440 or 426

[kar krazy]

Hi I'm new to the site. I needed to know if putting a 440 in duster would

be easier than a 426.

If neither will work is a 408 small block a good idea.

thanks

Kar krazy

[dodgedifferent2]

426 hemi or wedge ....both can be exspensive

440 is cheaper and can make better power on the street ...so i am told

[kar krazy]

But will the 440 fit easier into the engine bay than the hemi?

Also where can I get a 440

[dodgedifferent2]

well they did both of them back in the 60's and 70's so it can be done ...just might take a little more tinkering to get it done ..i am pretty sure both of them are the same size ....

[dodgedifferent2]

well they did both of them back in the 60's and 70's so it can be done ...just might take a little more tinkering to get it done ..i am pretty sure both of them are close to the same size ....


are you big into mopars? or just the hemi stuff?

[kar krazy]

I really like "THE HEMI" for performance and street appeal. I got to see a

modifed 426 hemi with alumiunm heads and it was the coolest engine I

ever saw. The only problem for me is I need it to be semi-reliable on

pump gas. The owner of that particular hemi had to tune it everyday. So

that's why I said if a 440 would be easier to work on and more reliable I

would shove it into my 73 duster. I'am only lokking to make 450-550

horsepower but, I must have at least 500 foot pounds of torque. so which

would be better for this harsh list of demands.

Thanks

kar krazy

[trappermike]

The 440 is a common swap.The Hemi can be done, but is much more complicated and expensive. #1,a used Hemi,if you could find one,would likely cost you more than a rebuilt hi-po 440,and hemi parts are expensive. #2 engine mounting and transmission hook-up are more complicated. #3 The brake master cylinder has to be relocated to clear the hemi's big valve covers,etc. Forget it unless you have 10grand to get started...
On the other hand,the 440 only needs some aftermarket motor mounts and headers-easy to get.Also u need a big-block tranny.An 83/4 rear end is desirable if your duster doesn't have one.The best way to get all the main components cheap is to go find a '68 - '70 chrysler of any type,they only came with a 383 or 440,and you get the tranny to boot.The '68 - '70 is best 'cause they were high compression,steel crank,and had the best heads. 450- 500 HP is easy.Torque? 440 six-pack had 480 stock!

[macx]

Although SS hemi darts & cudas (pre-70) were built,
the hemi was a tight fit being quite a bit wider than the
wedge head 440, plus heavier.

With modern technology, and several very good
aftermarket aluminum heads like Edelbrock and
Indy, the 440 can far exceed your power goals
easily.

As far as tuning goes, a daily tune just about
was a necessity back with the points ignition.
My 66 had to have fresh points every 2500 miles
and plugs every 5000. I later got an early
Mallory unilite electronic ignition which solved that,
when it was working. Also, with the non-tapered
cam lobes that wore out relatively quickly, I had
to set the valves every time I changed plugs, and
the cam kept wearing down so performance went
with it. With an aftermarket cam with tapered lobes,
that also became at least less of a problem. One
last thing with the piston and ring technology of the
day, oil consumption was high when driving it hard,
although driving it just "quickly" it didn't use much
and, with 3:54 gears, actually could get 14 or more
mpg at 70 mph.

As far as comparable power in the real world on
the street - my well tuned totally stock 66 hemi
4 speed made my later 70 Challenger RT/SE
4 speed, with deeper 4:10 gears, feel like an
absolute dog. ESPECIALLY during acceleration
at higher speeds, like above 100. In fact, with
totally showroom stock everything including
exhaust and 3:54 gears with 9:50x15's (29.5" dia),
it would turn 7200 in 4th. THAT is high end torque!

[trappermike]

Since I'm almost 50 now I can assure you I have owned many mopars,including a new Little Red Express,and many 383,440 power cars and trucks,including 2 '69 Super Bees.Idrove them very hard,and seldom was I fortunate enough to pick up one with lees than 100,000 miles on the motor.Yet try as I might,I could not blow a motor,tranny,or rear end!No failed oil pump,distributer,timing chain,bearings,valves etc!My last '69 Bee was 440-6-pack,4-speed,100,000 miles on it when I got it.It had the most radical Crane hydraulic cam,2" Hooker comp. headers,race oil system,Edelbrock race cross-ram intake(STR 14-6),manual carbs,etc.Hays 3400 .lb clutch,Hurst comp. shifter,super stock leaf springs,traction bars,big fat 50 series rear tires,which didn't drag in the wheel wells 'cause I used air shocks.
Believe it or not it was my daily driver for almost 10 years.Not one failure and it (like all my other Mopars) never left me on the side of the road once.I took it on long road trips many times.THATS why I'm so dedicated to Chryco products.Many of my friends try to drive hopped up Chevys.What a joke.All were experts at swapping motors,and did so more often than I changed spark plugs.
Don't over look a 383.Actually I prefer them over a 440.Why? Engine geometry my friends.Same sturdy design as 440 and hemi,BUT it has a short stroke and shorter con-rods,and lighter pistons,rods and crank.Which all add up to reliable high rpm potential that would blow other big-blocks and some small blocks to pieces.It has a big-bore,short-stroke that even todays engines must envy.
My next project? A truck with a PROPANE 383,done properly.12 to 1 pistons are the key.Most propane conversions are done on low-compression smog motors which is why people complain they lose power and milage.Propane is a high octane fuel.Super clean burning,it wont contaminate the oil(it stays amazingly clean)and almost no combustion chamber deposits.And because it is a gas,no fuel atomization and distrbution problems especially related to hi-po motors.Of course your valves must be set up properly for propane.And get this,I'll use a dual 4-barrel intake manifold with 2 large propane mixers(carbs) with none of the problems associated with gas set-ups.The best part is propane is cheap and will pass emmisions tests far easier than gas.
Whaddya think of that!

[macx]

I agree with the advantagaes of propane wholeheartedly.

And that's quite a record with all those hard miles after
all those hard miles and no break downs.

I have to chuckle at the bit about your Chebby friends
being expert engine swappers!

You're absolutely right that you need compression to
make propane a worthwhile proposition. It actually
has a little less BTU than gasoline, but the much higher
octane allows compression increases to more than make
up the difference.

I hadn't looked in a number of years, but I suppose
propane IS still cheaper than gas at today's gas prices.

Quite a number of years ago I lived on a farm and had
several older tractors that I took good care of. One was
a fairly large (by those days standards) propane powered
rig. It had countless hours on it when I bought it.
I checked it out and found absolutely no engine internal
contamination and no measurable wear. I buttoned it
back up and used it for lots of hours the first summer and
the oil didn't even get visibly dirtier! Without raw fuel and
unburned hydrocarbons (?) there's really nothing to
contaminate the oil which is what does most of the wearing
in bearings, cylinders, etc.

Really ran smooth and quiet, too.

If you have a reliable source for your propane, ENJOY!

[trappermike]

Here in Canada propane is quite a bit less than gas.About $3 compared to $4.50 a gallon.But you 'Mericans are catching up fast.The only fault I can find with propane is that in our north propane systems freeze up and quit when it gets colder than -35 degrees.( it can and does hit -50 or better in the Yukon-trust me I know)
Actually in about 1988 Dodge offered a factory propane pickup truck!All done properly, special valves and gear,hi-comp. pistons,heated system for cold weather use,etc. But because gas was still super cheap in the States and propane wasn't,they didn't sell well and they were discontinued.But I can see gas hitting astronomical prices in the future,hence my planned propane pickup.
My mopars in order starting from when I was 16:
- '64 polara model 440,383 4bbl,pushbutton auto
- '70 dodge "custom cab" truck,383,4-speed(custom cab was a rare option-round guages,factory Sun tach,etc.)
- '69 Super Bee-383 Magnum,4-speed,Ramcharger fresh-air hood option
- new '79 Little Red Express truck
- '73 Plymouth Satelite 318 (beater)
- new '81 Ramcharger 360
- '69 Super Bee,440 six-pack,4speed
- '69 Coronet RT 440 auto,Ramcharger hood and optional body side scoops
- new '81 Plymouth Horizon-Piece of sh*t-I discovered after I bought it that for some ungodly reason Plymouth installed a VW Rabbit motor in it! That horrible motor cursed that car until it "unfortunatly" caught fire,and sadly,was destroyed.It,s pretty bad when VW Beetle owners comment on how gutless your car is....
- '76 Dodge truck-318 Club Cab shortbox,3-n-the tree
- '68 Crysler New Yorker 2-door,440 4bbl
- '66 Chrysler 300,383 4-bbl
- '78 Dodge shortbox with '68 383 Mag.,auto w/shiftkit,83/4 posi rear
- '80 Powerwagon 318 4-speed,4-wheel drive
- 'new '89 Dakota 3.9(3/4 of a 318) V6,4x4,Sport package The motor was really sick when I bought it new.It had absolutely no power and drank gas like a V8.Dealer "tried" everything-no help.I disconnected the air pump and EGR-helped a little bit then I advanced timing about 4 deg.-helped a bit,but I new there was still something wrong with it.One day driving down the road it occurered to me that maybe the motor needed air.So I pulled over and yanked off the air filter and lid,then floored it out onto the highway. Holy CRAP! The motor just howled and squacked the tires into 2nd gear(auto)and went like hell!Gas milage jumped to 22mpg. Problem solved,I installed a standard 14" chrome open air cleaner on it,and would put the stock junk on it on warranty for service checks at the dealer.
- '81 Dodge pickup 360 hi-per. (beater)
- '81Dodge 3/4 ton,318 4-speed,Dana 60 rear-all3/4 tons of this era have them!(forget it,these truck Danas don't fit in a car)

Wow.I didn't realize until now just how many mopars I've owned.....

-

[cuda70]

A 440 with stage 5 aluminum heads is the way to go. (most bang for the buck) Being a Duster is an A-body Mopar you will battle with some room issues. Most of the Super Stockers hammer in the shock towers to make room for the headers when using a hemi head.

There are many who have done what you are looking to do with your Duster. You should be able find advice and pitfall warnings on this type of build on any hotrod type chat room. http://hotrodders.com/ is not a bad site for help on this type of project.

As far as using 92/93 octane pump gas the aluminum heads will help on keeping detonation in check. A 440 with Stage 5 heads should be able to run 10.5:1 compression with little to no detonation problems. At 10.5:1 compression with the right cam 500 + horse with 500 ft/lbs is certainly reachable.

Good Luck!

[CrAzY MoPaR GuY]

My Demon was a 440, the swap was easy, but I used underchassis CPPA 2" headers, which were a bit of a pain in the butt. I think using a head such as an Edelbrock, which moves the plug/plug boot away from the header tube would be the biggest gain from my perspective. There are better street headers made for the application now anyways..?
My booster/master had to be relocated, I used the setup out of a 1968 Barracuda, with the "Z" linkage.
Transmission for a Hemi or a 440 would be the same, as would rear requirements. An 8 1/4" rear isn't a good idea with a strong engine IMO.

[CrAzY MoPaR GuY]

I had to "nix" the blower motor for the heater as well.....
Not much room for it with the 440....

[cuda70]

Alot of the fit problems with the 440 to an A-body is if you use aftermarket hemi heads to the 440. The heads are wider and with the diffrence in header tube angles it gets tight. I agree with Crazy on the rear-end. I would find and use a Dana 60. Anything bigger then the Dana is aftermarket and $$$.

Its ALL good.

[Qwik426]

If you're bucks-down go with the 440 Wedge. If money is not much of a concern, then I'd recommend a big, bad 426 HEMI if for nothing else but its massive, mean look!

Here's a link to a great site that'll help if you wanna go the Wedge route:

http://www.bigblockdart.com/

Regards,

Q426

[freebird12345687]

Budget route, basic rebuilt 440 with 9.5-10:1 compression. Aerohead cylinder heads, these are recoditioned with oversized 2.14 X 1.81 valves, and a 3 angle valve job and run $599. Grab the complete Edelbrock Performer RPM kit i.e. valve springs, camshaft and lifters, Performer RPM inake Manifold, 850 cfm carb and 1 3/4 inch primary tube header. This setup on a 9.5:1 compression 440 with stock 906 heads makes 451 horsepower, and 505 lb/ft. I've seen that proven. So valve job heads, TTI headers, Port matched manifold from huhghes engines and i'd say you hit over your 450 horse mark. Scratch the TTIs and port matched manifold and it could be done in a fairly budget concious manner. Hapy building my friend.

[freebird12345687]

one more thing the Aeroheads come with valve springs, but if you don't use the springs that come with the Edelbrock package they won't cover the cam under warranty.

[PistolGrip426]

I didnt read all of the jibber jabber, but I seen that you want it to be reliable on pump gas, so im assuming you want to drive everyday. Hemis are actually good street engines IMO, but in your Duster, LOL. The only way to turn that thing quick will be to turn the wheel and floor it and loose control. Its going to plow into corners like the front wheels arent even on the ground, and traction will be horrible with all of that weight over the front wheels. I wouldnt care personally, but most people would, and you might. Although with aluminum heads it wont be as bad, the 440 will still be lighter.

[PistolGrip426]

Budget route, basic rebuilt 440 with 9.5-10:1 compression. Aerohead cylinder heads, these are recoditioned with oversized 2.14 X 1.81 valves, and a 3 angle valve job and run $599. Grab the complete Edelbrock Performer RPM kit i.e. valve springs, camshaft and lifters, Performer RPM inake Manifold, 850 cfm carb and 1 3/4 inch primary tube header. This setup on a 9.5:1 compression 440 with stock 906 heads makes 451 horsepower, and 505 lb/ft. I've seen that proven. So valve job heads, TTI headers, Port matched manifold from huhghes engines and i'd say you hit over your 450 horse mark. Scratch the TTIs and port matched manifold and it could be done in a fairly budget concious manner. Hapy building my friend.

I would reccomend a bowl porting before the angle job. Some people swaer by the three angle valve jobs, but I dont think its money best spent when you dont have them ported.