After Market Intakes

Discussion of the Early Dodge / DeSoto HEMIs.

Moderators: scottm, TrWaters, 392heminut

HOTRODCHARLIE1969

CUSTOM INTAKE

Post by HOTRODCHARLIE1969 »

LET ME KNOW I NEED A SINGLE 4 BBL CAPABLE OF MOVING SOME AIR,FOR MY STROKED 291 DESOTO.HOTRODCHARLIE1969
Moparlee
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 am
Location: Carthage, MO

Post by Moparlee »

I don't even think the guy that orginally posted this is still around here. I would be nice if somebody could start doing this. It would probably be Hot Heads to do if they would do it. I would like one for my little short deck Dodge Hemi.

Lee
392 Hemi
354 cracked and needs a sleeve
241 or 270 the only running one I have
340/E-brock heads/six-pack/4-speed/mini tubed/spool-64 Valiant
Gullwing
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:08 pm
Location: aLBANY

aftermarket intakes

Post by Gullwing »

I can see that this problem of a good inexpensive intake for a Desoto is not going away any time soon. So, I just bought a set of conversion plates to convert my intake to electronic fuel injection. I will be bolting on 4 Webers to be used as the throttle bodies and using a Meqasquirt ECU. I am figuring the total cost to be between $1,500-2,000. I supppose for just slightly more I could use four Weber IDAs. However the electronic injection is going to have much better drivability. The overal appearance of the 4 Webers will be killer. Plus I can easily modify the system for nitrous or other upgrades. I will be running a distributerless electronic ignition. I can keep the original distributer in place to look like it is hooked up. Meanwhile I have two coil-packs dicretely hidden to provide the spark.
johnny5
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: St Charles, MO

it's about time!!!!!!

Post by johnny5 »

I spoke with Marty @ EELCO about intake manifolds for the Desoto hemis. He said that after the unprecedented interest in the 6x2bbl intake they recently showcased he's gotten over a dozen phone calls for a single 4 bbl manifold.

Here's the deal. They plan on making intakes for the low and tall deck motors in single 4bbl, 3x2bbl and 2x4bbl. In addition they will make valve covers and adapters. If enough people pre-pay for 1/2 the cost of a new intake it will really speed things up. Availability will be ~12 months, maybe more, depending on how many orders are received.

If anyone out there is serious give him a call. I'll gladly pay half to get the ball rolling and I know alot of you will too. He's been posting in the forum under 'retro'.

http://www.eelco-usa.com/
TrWaters
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Post by TrWaters »

Someone may finally produce an aftermarket intake for the Desotos, but I am afraid it will be little more than a stock type base with a place to bolt on a 4bbl. True, better than nothing, but I am quite sure that not much r&d or flow work will be done during the design. This is the reason that no "big name" intake companies have bothered to produce anything. Taking into consideration the time and effort involved.....to sell what...... maybe 50 or so intakes? And this is split between low and high deck versions.

As a parts producer I can tell you..... the Desoto market is the weakest of the 3 hemi groups. I've personally spend $$$ on r&d, with virtually no interest in the end.
I give credit to anyone who will produce a new part, but from a dollar standpoint, a 54 style 331 4bbl intake with extra material to cover the center crossover on truck type heads would be a much wiser investment. Just my $.02
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.
johnny5
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: St Charles, MO

Post by johnny5 »

TrWaters wrote:Someone may finally produce an aftermarket intake for the Desotos, but I am afraid it will be little more than a stock type base with a place to bolt on a 4bbl. True, better than nothing, but I am quite sure that not much r&d or flow work will be done during the design. This is the reason that no "big name" intake companies have bothered to produce anything. Taking into consideration the time and effort involved.....to sell what...... maybe 50 or so intakes? And this is split between low and high deck versions.

As a parts producer I can tell you..... the Desoto market is the weakest of the 3 hemi groups. I've personally spend $$$ on r&d, with virtually no interest in the end.
I give credit to anyone who will produce a new part, but from a dollar standpoint, a 54 style 331 4bbl intake with extra material to cover the center crossover on truck type heads would be a much wiser investment. Just my $.02
You may be right about the lack of R&D but it can't be hard to improve on the original design just by enlarging the runners on the 4bbl, which actually flows pretty well for a stocker. I've seen their Buick nailhead 2x4 setup - looks nice. It's a dual-plane with long criss-crossed runners. That alone should bring the power band down. It's a better design to start with than the stock or Weiand intake with the short straight runners.

If this takes off you may just sell a lot more Desoto parts. The only thing holding them (Desoto hemis) back is the lack of an affordable street rod intake. There are thousands of them out there in the corners of shop floors, barns, old cars etc just waiting for a manifold. It's a little bigger but a better overall engine than the Red Ram IMHO. It's smaller than the Chrysler too so it'll fit in a rod alot more easily and you won't have to beef up the front suspension to dump truck status to keep the frame from dragging the ground :lol:
Moparlee
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 am
Location: Carthage, MO

Post by Moparlee »

So did they make it? Are they going to make any for the Dodge motors?

Lee
392 Hemi
354 cracked and needs a sleeve
241 or 270 the only running one I have
340/E-brock heads/six-pack/4-speed/mini tubed/spool-64 Valiant
Moparlee
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 am
Location: Carthage, MO

Post by Moparlee »

So did they make it? Are they going to make any for the Dodge motors?

Lee
392 Hemi
354 cracked and needs a sleeve
241 or 270 the only running one I have
340/E-brock heads/six-pack/4-speed/mini tubed/spool-64 Valiant
George
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Fl

Post by George »

Hot Heads lists a Hilborn EFI set up for DeSoto, along with 4 & 6X2 log intakes.
johnny5
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: St Charles, MO

no one into Desotos visits this site

Post by johnny5 »

Moparlee wrote:So did they make it? Are they going to make any for the Dodge motors?

Lee
Not until people start showing interest by contacting Eelco and agreeing to pay 50% toward the initial casting. I've already done this and I'm trying to coordinate it through the group purchase section but no one else has contacted me about it since April...
Moparlee
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 am
Location: Carthage, MO

Post by Moparlee »

Is this just for Desoto's or for Dodge's also?

Lee
392 Hemi
354 cracked and needs a sleeve
241 or 270 the only running one I have
340/E-brock heads/six-pack/4-speed/mini tubed/spool-64 Valiant
Bailiesdad
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Bailiesdad »

Moparlee wrote:So did they make it? Are they going to make any for the Dodge motors?

Lee
Est for the cost to produce EACH type of manifold would run into the high teens as 17-19K. That was 5 years ago.

Metal prices have almost doubled since that price was given.

So anyone wanting to have any manifold manufactured only needs about 30-40K and it could be done in probably 6-8 months.

Figure you would have to sell 50 maniflds at 800 each to break even or 1000 to cover all your costs and the time value of the money.

Tack on your costs and profit margin, for people to sell them for you, and you reach 1300-1500 price level per manifold.

Anyone wishing to do this, I can place them in direct contact with the foundry, just write the 40K check and get the ball rolling.

In less than a year you will have 50 manifolds sitting at your location waiting for the 1500 checks to come rolling in.

Think of all the money you could make.... :wink:

OR

Wilsons will make them, on a per manifold basis, out of sheetmetal, and charge you 3500 to 4500 per manifold.
Moparlee
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 am
Location: Carthage, MO

Post by Moparlee »

Wow, you are my hero!

Lee
392 Hemi
354 cracked and needs a sleeve
241 or 270 the only running one I have
340/E-brock heads/six-pack/4-speed/mini tubed/spool-64 Valiant
Bailiesdad
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Bailiesdad »

Moparlee wrote:Wow, you are my hero!

Lee
Great, post pictures of them when you get them finished.

Let johny5 know he could give you those who got into the group purchase for your first customer.

AND......

With the profits, you could get a set of the Titanium valve covers. The covers complete with tubes sell for 4800. Then you would have a real impresive hemi....
Moparlee
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38 am
Location: Carthage, MO

Post by Moparlee »

:roll:
392 Hemi
354 cracked and needs a sleeve
241 or 270 the only running one I have
340/E-brock heads/six-pack/4-speed/mini tubed/spool-64 Valiant
Bailiesdad
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Bailiesdad »

Moparlee wrote::roll:
Got another source for you, Hogan manifolds.

http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/


Here is another one, www.diversatech.com/prod_billet_hemi.html ask for Haskel.

Bob Johnson got one for his car. :D

All you need is $$$$$, they do not accept :roll: , for payments.... :D
johnny5
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: St Charles, MO

Re: it's about time!!!!!!

Post by johnny5 »

johnny5 wrote:I spoke with Marty @ EELCO about intake manifolds for the Desoto hemis. He said that after the unprecedented interest in the 6x2bbl intake they recently showcased he's gotten over a dozen phone calls for a single 4 bbl manifold.

Here's the deal. They plan on making intakes for the low and tall deck motors in single 4bbl, 3x2bbl and 2x4bbl. In addition they will make valve covers and adapters. If enough people pre-pay for 1/2 the cost of a new intake it will really speed things up. Availability will be ~12 months, maybe more, depending on how many orders are received.

If anyone out there is serious give him a call. I'll gladly pay half to get the ball rolling and I know alot of you will too. He's been posting in the forum under 'retro'.

http://www.eelco-usa.com/
Here are some additions and clarification:

- initial casting/1st manifold produced will cost around $10K
- minor changes can be made to the casting to produce different carb patterns (single 4, 3x2, 2x4, etc) without reinventing the wheel; each subsequent casting will not cost as much, all of the major R&D is already done by this point
- manifold price will be around $400, still cheaper and better than a stock 50 year old cast iron unit

Peter, this is based on my conversation with Marty. Feel free to call him if you don't believe me. I'm sure Scott is tired of locking every thread you touch. Watch it or you'll get kicked off of this board too.
Bailiesdad
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Bailiesdad »

Using your figures, if the first manifold costs $10,000 to produce, how many would have to be produced and what is the additional cost added, to get the manifolds into the 400 apiece range?

R+D 10,000
First production run 50 manifolds, @ 200 each 10,000 ( last quote from man July 2006) any less, cost per piece would go up. 100 would cut the cost to 160 +/- each.

total cost 20,000 @50

So now you have 50 manifolds that cost you 400 each to produce.

Your "cost" would go down if you made 100 but total cost would be higher, ie 26,000 ave cost would go down to 260 each.

50 manifolds would have to be sold for at least 600-750 to make it worth tying up that much money for the length of time it takes to sell them. 100 would have to go in the 500-600 range and take longer to sell. PS this is for ONE model, you will need several models just to take care of requests on this thread.

One manifold from Wilsons, Hogans, or Diversatech 2500-4500.

Those are the economics (again hard numbers) of producing a part, production or custom.

Read the "moderators" post again. IE parts that sell post...

That is why no one will manufacture them. That is why the origional poster, from 5years ago, never made any.

If you or anyone wants a manifold they have 3 sources to get one made.

As to you little attempt to slam me, Scott does not mind truthful posting in any area of his website.

If you want to bash, attempt to slander, or post misleading info, he will take action. That is what is unique and refreshing about this website.
retro

Post by retro »

Hello Gentlemen. I will start a new thread regarding this manifold discussion.
johnny5
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: St Charles, MO

Post by johnny5 »

Bailiesdad wrote:Using your figures, if the first manifold costs $10,000 to produce, how many would have to be produced and what is the additional cost added, to get the manifolds into the 400 apiece range?

R+D 10,000
First production run 50 manifolds, @ 200 each 10,000 ( last quote from man July 2006) any less, cost per piece would go up. 100 would cut the cost to 160 +/- each.

total cost 20,000 @50

So now you have 50 manifolds that cost you 400 each to produce.

Your "cost" would go down if you made 100 but total cost would be higher, ie 26,000 ave cost would go down to 260 each.

50 manifolds would have to be sold for at least 600-750 to make it worth tying up that much money for the length of time it takes to sell them. 100 would have to go in the 500-600 range and take longer to sell. PS this is for ONE model, you will need several models just to take care of requests on this thread.

One manifold from Wilsons, Hogans, or Diversatech 2500-4500.

Those are the economics (again hard numbers) of producing a part, production or custom.

Read the "moderators" post again. IE parts that sell post...

That is why no one will manufacture them. That is why the origional poster, from 5years ago, never made any.

If you or anyone wants a manifold they have 3 sources to get one made.

As to you little attempt to slam me, Scott does not mind truthful posting in any area of his website.

If you want to bash, attempt to slander, or post misleading info, he will take action. That is what is unique and refreshing about this website.
The difference between what you stated and what I stated is that I based it on a conversation with the manufacturer and you based your comments on, well, I'm at a loss. I just have no idea where you get some of your ideas from. Hogan's is a one-off sheetmetal intake manufacturer with very exclusive clientele. That's like comparing apples to kumquats.

You didn't call them up, you didn't verify or disprove anything, so show some class and don't respond to this until you do so.
Bailiesdad
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Bailiesdad »

My cost , R+D, and production figures came from the same foundry that casts and manufacturers Donovan parts, PAW parts, Hot Head parts, Jr Tompson parts, and the defunct AIW parts. Now you are no longer "at a loss".

Gee as to Hogans, you have posted that I am now a very exclusive person, I had one made.

Real simple, I needed a manifold, they made it, 6 week turnaround, great work.

Anyone else need a manifold they will do the same for them.

See, I check things BEFORE I post. I ask questions BEFORE I post.

When retro starts a new thread you can see if any low cost mass produced manifolds are actually made in the NEXT five years..none have been made from this 5 year old thread.

Then reality might set in..............
TrWaters
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Post by TrWaters »

I would say this post has come to an end. If you two want to continue, please use the PM feature or email.
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.
Locked